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 Post subject: NdeM 3028 Sept 2023
PostPosted: Wed Sep 27, 2023 7:04 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 11:26 am
Posts: 4667
Location: Maine
While in Pennsylvania this past week I made a side trip to the NH&I, which I hadn't seen in 50 years. Back where the interesting stuff was stored half a century ago, stands NdeM 3028. Since the locomotive is an often discussed topic here, I thought an update was in order. I know she's a "pet" project of certain regular contributors.


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 Post subject: Re: NdeM 3028 Sept 2023
PostPosted: Wed Sep 27, 2023 7:28 pm 

Joined: Sat Oct 17, 2015 5:55 pm
Posts: 2367
Here's a post from last year on the topic: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=47634&p=340420#p340420


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 Post subject: Re: NdeM 3028 Sept 2023
PostPosted: Wed Sep 27, 2023 7:42 pm 

Joined: Sun Sep 05, 2004 9:48 am
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Location: Byers, Colorado
Now THAT'S what I call a worthy cause !!!! Thank you very much for posting these fotos.

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 Post subject: Re: NdeM 3028 Sept 2023
PostPosted: Wed Sep 27, 2023 7:52 pm 

Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2023 1:55 pm
Posts: 49
Pretty similar in size to the NCSTL 576 being restored.

Not sure what operation would need / want something that big, lacking the local history of say 611 etc. But if someone like grand canyon wanted more steam, it'd be a great locomotive I'd think, if it could operate at 30-40 mph.

Wasn't there a weird ownership dispute or something with it, maybe preventing a sale?


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 Post subject: Re: NdeM 3028 Sept 2023
PostPosted: Thu Sep 28, 2023 9:37 am 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 11:26 am
Posts: 4667
Location: Maine
I should have uploaded these earlier, but they just came off my cellphone.
These are additional images of the 3028.


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 Post subject: Re: NdeM 3028 Sept 2023
PostPosted: Thu Sep 28, 2023 9:58 am 

Joined: Thu May 06, 2010 10:30 pm
Posts: 996
Location: Bucks County, PA
Honestly, #3028 is not needed anymore at New Hope - at least not for a while. Passenger excursions can only go the 7 miles or so to Buckingham at most. For a while now, track past there is only good for freight moves. A revenue passenger train (not counting the rare ferry move to Warminster and beyond) hasn't gone the 16 miles to Ivyland and beyond in many years.

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 Post subject: Re: NdeM 3028 Sept 2023
PostPosted: Thu Sep 28, 2023 10:07 am 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 3:37 pm
Posts: 1285
Location: Pacific, MO
Before Grand Canyon RR restricted steam, I always thought those engines would be a good fit for them.
I don't understand why it is just sitting and decaying. Today's steam climate is restricting, but she deserves better than this.
Operationally, the Niagras are reasonably small.


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 Post subject: Re: NdeM 3028 Sept 2023
PostPosted: Thu Sep 28, 2023 1:15 pm 

Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2023 1:55 pm
Posts: 49
For sure on the smaller side, but still not designed to run 15-20 mph like most tourist RRs operate.

Also, do remember reading some odd situation with it's ownership, but can't recall what that situation was/is.


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 Post subject: Re: NdeM 3028 Sept 2023
PostPosted: Thu Sep 28, 2023 1:57 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 9:05 am
Posts: 118
I can remember when it sat undercover at the Altamont NY fair grounds. Been sitting out side ever since.
Al


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 Post subject: Re: NdeM 3028 Sept 2023
PostPosted: Fri Sep 29, 2023 1:25 pm 

Joined: Sun Sep 05, 2004 9:48 am
Posts: 1612
Location: Byers, Colorado
PMC wrote:
Here's a post from last year on the topic: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=47634&p=340420#p340420


This link doesn't work for me, but I appreciate the effort of posting it. Here is one that does: http://www.rypn.org/articles/single.php ... 015159.txt

BWills wrote:
For sure on the smaller side, but still not designed to run 15-20 mph like most tourist RRs operate.


These locomotives handled every job they were ever given. That is one reason why they were the last class of big steam to survive on the railroads of North America. Running an NdeM Niagara at 15 or 20 mph is practical enough --- look at the many 4-6-2s in tourist line service that also are creeping along at much less than the speeds for which they were intended.

BWills wrote:
But if someone like grand canyon wanted more steam, it'd be a great locomotive I'd think, if it could operate at 30-40 mph.


These engines could manage twice that speed, certainly they are capable of any track speed move anywhere in the USA except the NE Corridor.

BWills wrote:
Wasn't there a weird ownership dispute or something with it, maybe preventing a sale?


I hesitate to say too much about this, for any number of good reasons. What I can offer is that both the NH&I and the ALCO Historical & Technical Society claim ownership. This was hashed out on some of the previous threads posted to this discussion board, and I will search for them now and add the links to this post:

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=46890&hilit=NdeM+3038
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=40901&hilit=NdeM+3038
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=32210&hilit=NdeM+3038
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=35566&hilit=NdeM+3038
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=46242&hilit=NdeM+3038

OK, I think this is everything you always wanted to know about NdeM #3038, but were afraid to ask. Thanks to all of you for your interest in my favorite lost cause, and especially to Richard for posting these pictures.

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 Post subject: Re: NdeM 3028 Sept 2023
PostPosted: Fri Sep 29, 2023 2:08 pm 

Joined: Thu May 24, 2012 1:37 pm
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What might be useful in this context is to recall what Tuplin observed with a full-size Niagara that was probably being broken in after shopping, doing the work of a much smaller engine in local service. He observed it being sliding-pressure fired up to low pressure -- less than 180psi although I don't remember the exact figure -- and getting the same fuel consumption and nearly enough the same water rate as the 2-8-0 that would normally have handled the work. It would use more mass flow of steam per stroke to do 'equivalent' work... but how often would you need the full practical tractive effort of the locomotive for more than starting?

It would be easy to control at 10mph, and easily reach 40+ anywhere a typical smaller 'tourist' locomotive of suitable capacity would have acceptable augment performance.

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 Post subject: Re: NdeM 3028 Sept 2023
PostPosted: Fri Sep 29, 2023 5:23 pm 

Joined: Sat Oct 17, 2015 5:55 pm
Posts: 2367
QJdriver wrote:
This was hashed out on some of the previous threads posted to this discussion board, and I will search for them now and add the links to this post:

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=46890&hilit=NdeM+3038


That's the link I intended to post, the one where the Alco HS guy says that they are down to four active members. Probably a good time to relinquish control of NdeM 3028, eh?


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 Post subject: Re: NdeM 3028 Sept 2023
PostPosted: Fri Sep 29, 2023 6:22 pm 

Joined: Sun Sep 05, 2004 9:48 am
Posts: 1612
Location: Byers, Colorado
Conversely, this might be a good time for some of the folks who care about #3038 to pitch in and help us. I can't speak for the AH&TS as a whole, but I would be willing to consider anything which is BEST FOR THE LOCOMOTIVE. Now, can we get a consensus as to what that would be ?? Speaking personally again: Show me what you got....

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 Post subject: Re: NdeM 3028 Sept 2023
PostPosted: Sat Sep 30, 2023 9:03 am 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 3:37 pm
Posts: 1285
Location: Pacific, MO
Overmod wrote:
What might be useful in this context is to recall what Tuplin observed with a full-size Niagara that was probably being broken in after shopping, doing the work of a much smaller engine in local service. He observed it being sliding-pressure fired up to low pressure -- less than 180psi although I don't remember the exact figure -- and getting the same fuel consumption and nearly enough the same water rate as the 2-8-0 that would normally have handled the work. It would use more mass flow of steam per stroke to do 'equivalent' work... but how often would you need the full practical tractive effort of the locomotive for more than starting?

It would be easy to control at 10mph, and easily reach 40+ anywhere a typical smaller 'tourist' locomotive of suitable capacity would have acceptable augment performance.


Wouldn't the air pumps be really sluggish at less that 180 psi steam pressure?


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 Post subject: Re: NdeM 3028 Sept 2023
PostPosted: Sat Sep 30, 2023 11:42 am 

Joined: Mon Nov 26, 2007 2:54 am
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Location: Califoothills / Midwest Prairies / PNW
QJdriver wrote:
Conversely, this might be a good time for some of the folks who care about #3038 to pitch in and help us. I can't speak for the AH&TS as a whole, but I would be willing to consider anything which is BEST FOR THE LOCOMOTIVE. Now, can we get a consensus as to what that would be ?? Speaking personally again: Show me what you got....


I'll play This peanut gallery game.
Railroads with NYC nexus and some nice trackage, could use steam, would be a long term team building exercise:
Catskill Mountain Railroad
Adirondack Railroad

Longer tourist RR with good track record of experience:
Fort Wayne Railroad Historical Society
(the "Indiana Rail Experience" and a fleet of NYC passenger cars)
Sugar Express

Those that have the skills to do the restoration:
Strasburg RR (perhaps in a partnership with one of the above)
Fort Wayne
Sugar Express


Moderators: move to Railfanning if needed.


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