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 Post subject: Re: Coronet Phosphate 0-4-2T #6; then and now
PostPosted: Thu Sep 21, 2017 1:56 am 

Joined: Fri Apr 07, 2017 7:32 pm
Posts: 31
This is more of a WAY back then picture... Posted at Sammy's request.

Image

Photo by Keith Ardinger

She sure is going to look good when all said and done!

Might have to add an extra step for Sammy's new knee though!!! (Just kidding of course)


Cody Muse


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 Post subject: Re: Coronet Phosphate 0-4-2T #6; then and now
PostPosted: Thu Sep 21, 2017 4:10 pm 

Joined: Sun Sep 05, 2004 9:48 am
Posts: 456
Location: Byers, Colorado
The resemblance is pretty scary, Les, did you copy the kid's hat when you painted Audrey's number plate back in North Judson ???

And thanks to you, Cody !!!

We do not know the time of this picture or the photographer's name, but the original image and publications rights belong to Kieth Ardinger, who graciously allowed me use of it for non commercial purposes only, with credit to his private archive.

I'm guessing this was taken in the early 50s at the phosphate processing plant in Coronet. Other than the missing parts, the only difference I notice between the picture and Audrey's present configuration is that she now has plywood in place of the wainscoating in her cab sides.

I'm still seeking more photos or any kind of information on either #6 or the Coronet Phosphate industrial railroad operations. Will be happy to pay costs of duplication and mailing.

Take Care & WORK SAFE

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 Post subject: Re: Coronet Phosphate 0-4-2T #6; then and now
PostPosted: Fri Sep 22, 2017 4:56 pm 

Joined: Sat Oct 17, 2015 5:55 pm
Posts: 351
A very similar steamer was recently pulled out of a park in Bellingham WA and moved to the Northwest Railway Museum in Snoqualmie WA: http://www.bellinghamherald.com/news/ar ... 37226.html


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 Post subject: Re: Coronet Phosphate 0-4-2T #6; then and now
PostPosted: Mon Sep 25, 2017 5:27 pm 

Joined: Sun Sep 05, 2004 9:48 am
Posts: 456
Location: Byers, Colorado
From what I can tell, the Bloedel engine is probably pretty similar to what my #6 looked like before they added the back truck from Southern Iron & Equipment Company.

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 Post subject: Re: Coronet Phosphate 0-4-2T #6; then and now
PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 7:33 pm 

Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2005 1:25 pm
Posts: 5021
QJdriver wrote:
From what I can tell, the Bloedel engine is probably pretty similar to what my #6 looked like before they added the back truck from Southern Iron & Equipment Company.


Sammy -

I'm a bit slow on the uptake these days, but have a couple of questions:

Number 1 is "how did you determine that Southern Iron & Equipment added the back truck to Audrey?"

Number 2 is "what would be the purpose of adding it?"

Sorry for the questions; I just woke up from my slumber!

Les


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 Post subject: Re: Coronet Phosphate 0-4-2T #6; then and now
PostPosted: Fri Dec 08, 2017 4:30 pm 

Joined: Sun Sep 05, 2004 9:48 am
Posts: 456
Location: Byers, Colorado
Brother Beckman,

The back truck wheelset has foundry markings from Southern Iron & equipment Co on it, it has a nice profile with 1/16" wear left on it. Someday when it's at the limit, I hope somebody will turn this down and make tires to fit, since very few engines have these markings, (I imagine). I also imagine that the truck consisted of a kit of castings, which the welding and shimming experts of Coronet Phosphate Co had to figure out how to assemble and install.

They did one Hell of a job, too. I realize that flame cut parts can work in some applications, but seriously folks, some of it looks like it was chewed by a shark. They also cobbled together a two foot long frame extension held together by wood blocks, long bolts, and dinkleberries. Plenty of dinkleberries. Oh, and one side isn't holding together anymore, and both sides were bent up all to Hell when she got rear ended by some loose cars "switched in error".

Then, they turned the fuel tank upside down, my guess is that it provides better visability that way. One thing I really like about Audrey is that you sit up nice and high, and have a good view of your brakemen (someday, when I have to watch a brakeman). Obviously, we will have to do a better job when we dig into it, so that somebody in the future won't have to go back and fix all this again. It looks like the phosphate mine did their repairs on third shift, without dropping the fire. At any rate, I'm pretty sure that Southern Iron & Equipment would have done a better job. AND, I plan to keep the general design and appearance of this locomotive if my project gets that far, but make it more solid.

There are many Porter 0-4-0T saddletankers left, but NONE of the many store bought back truck engines in Audrey's weight class. Again I have to guess, (anybody with specific information PLEASE speak up), but I think that ALCO #7 (Gramling's engine) did a fine job, so that my engine was converted to this design. The advantage of the back truck is that the engine doesn't waddle like ducks and 0-4-Ts do. This would allow higher speeds for switching, to flit around from one job to another.

I bet they kept their speed down when they had ahold of something, though. Her train brakes were removed, and she has what looks to be a steam brake valve plumbed up to the air brake cylinders, and mounted on the engineer's arm rest. She also still used a regular steam powered air compressor w/ governor and air reservoir to feed this contraption. When and why they did this is one of the mysteries about the saddletanker of my dreams.

While we're at it, another mystery is why did Porter put that big hole in the fuel tank ??? If you look at the last saddletanker in line, on the famous erecting shop floor picture on the cover of the famous Porter catalog reprint, you can see that she always had it. Yes, that's Audrey. Look at the May, 1913 date on that picture, and check the notes for their production during that month....

Take Care, WORK SAFE, & Merry Christmas/Happy 2018 !!!!

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 Post subject: Re: Coronet Phosphate 0-4-2T #6; then and now
PostPosted: Sat Dec 09, 2017 12:13 am 

Joined: Tue Aug 24, 2004 5:41 pm
Posts: 189
Location: Colfax,WI
The hole in the tank was to allow for the clean out of the flues. As an oil burner, the flues needed to be cleaned periodically to remove soot build up. Our Coronet Phosphate #5 2-6-2T has the same setup.

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 Post subject: Re: Coronet Phosphate 0-4-2T #6; then and now
PostPosted: Sat Dec 09, 2017 2:02 pm 

Joined: Sun Sep 05, 2004 9:48 am
Posts: 456
Location: Byers, Colorado
Thanks for your reply, Herb, and I hope your project with #5 is moving along.

On an oil burner, the way you clean out your tubes is by racking out the blower all the way when the engine is working. Then, you take a tapered tubular device called a "sand horn", scoop it full of sand, and shake it into the firebox through the round opening in the firedoor. Do that two or three times, then put the scoop away, and sit back down on the seatbox. That's why you'll find sand piled up on the brickwork, and also in the smokebox of oil burners.

Take Care & WORK SAFE

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Sammy KIng


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 Post subject: Re: Coronet Phosphate 0-4-2T #6; then and now
PostPosted: Sat Dec 09, 2017 2:35 pm 

Joined: Thu Dec 01, 2011 11:23 am
Posts: 210
Location: Sheboygan County, Wisconsin
QJdriver wrote:
Brother Beckman,





While we're at it, another mystery is why did Porter put that big hole in the fuel tank ??? If you look at the last saddletanker in line, on the famous erecting shop floor picture on the cover of the famous Porter catalog reprint, you can see that she always had it. Yes, that's Audrey. Look at the May, 1913 date on that picture, and check the notes for their production during that month....

Take Care, WORK SAFE, & Merry Christmas/Happy 2018 !!!!


It may not have been designed for this reason, but that large hole does serve to protect
the cab and its inhabitants somewhat from firebox blowback. That's a pretty nasty event to experience, especially when there is no place for the mess to go.


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 Post subject: Re: Coronet Phosphate 0-4-2T #6; then and now
PostPosted: Sat Dec 09, 2017 2:45 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 9:54 am
Posts: 797
Location: NJ
I remember seeing that hole through the bunker on one of WK&S's engines, years ago. I'm sure it was a coal burner.


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 Post subject: Re: Coronet Phosphate 0-4-2T #6; then and now
PostPosted: Sat Dec 09, 2017 3:26 pm 

Joined: Thu Aug 26, 2004 2:50 pm
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Location: Northern Illinois
Question; without the hole, is there enough length in the cab to get the "fire tools" all the way to the front corners of the firebox?

Also, I've seen tubes "punched" with a pipe and compressed air when they filled with cinders.

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 Post subject: Re: Coronet Phosphate 0-4-2T #6; then and now
PostPosted: Sat Dec 09, 2017 4:24 pm 

Joined: Thu Apr 14, 2005 9:34 pm
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Location: Copenhagen, Denmark
What is a "dinkleberry"?

What I find in Google is not railway related.

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 Post subject: Re: Coronet Phosphate 0-4-2T #6; then and now
PostPosted: Sat Dec 09, 2017 7:31 pm 

Joined: Thu Aug 05, 2010 2:06 am
Posts: 146
softwerkslex wrote:
What is a "dinkleberry"?

What I find in Google is not railway related.


Steven, I would suggest expanding your google search to dinkleberry weld. Alternatively you could ask a professional welder and when they quit laughing they may explain it to you.......mld

On another note, those I've spoken with who have studied & researched Porters say the hole in the fuel bunker is to allow enough backswing to get long handled fire tools into the firebox......mld


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 Post subject: Re: Coronet Phosphate 0-4-2T #6; then and now
PostPosted: Sun Dec 10, 2017 4:25 am 

Joined: Wed Jan 25, 2012 1:56 pm
Posts: 3
On some UK locos the hole in the bunker is for removing the regulator shaft.
reguards

Dave


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 Post subject: Re: Coronet Phosphate 0-4-2T #6; then and now
PostPosted: Mon Dec 11, 2017 6:12 pm 

Joined: Sun Sep 05, 2004 9:48 am
Posts: 456
Location: Byers, Colorado
First, thanks for all the interest in poor little Audrey. Judging by the number of hits on this thread, I do believe she has made a few friends lately. Thanks again to all who care.

Since there seems to be nothing besides a bit of clearance around the burner, and the swinging damper on the firedoor in the way of air admission to the fire, my GUESS is that the hole in the bunker permitted air to enter the enclosed cab.

Brother Moungovan is also correct that a flashback has no place to go other than your seatbox, maybe they thought of that when they built her. I'll know more after I run a few barrels of diesel through her someday.

A fella will need to be careful though --- a hard coupling, collision, or derailment could slosh some fuel around in that wooden cab, and maybe get it lit. Not to mention that the plumbing in her cab for firing is a complete death trap without spilling any fuel, gonna have to redesign THAT mess, too. Need to install a ripcord, too.

As for boiler making tools (On an oil burner, we don't do much with "firing tools") , I think there's enough room without the hole for a retube job, BUT you have to pull everything out of the front end, and I think most likely pull the smokebox front off to get all the tubes through both sheets. My erecting card shows this hole lined up with the firedoor centerline, but even with that positioning, I don't think you could get the tubes in without piecing. Again, I'll know more once I've actually DONE IT MYSELF.

(While we're at it, I live in Colorado, but have ZERO experience firing locomotives on coal. Don't know diddley about it, but at least I know it....) However, on oil burners I've never even heard of somebody having to "punch out cinders". Oil forms an insulating carbon coating in the tubes, which impedes heat transfer, and leads to over firing and diminished steaming. You can crank an oil fire up high enough to melt the heads off the staybolts, while the train stalls anyway. Something to watch out for....

Steven, sometimes "dinkleberries" (a word which can have many legitimate mis spellings...) are called "BBs". That's what they look like. It's nothing more than a slang term for a crummy, trashy weld, which has to be ground out and done over.

I believe on this engine, you get the throttle linkage out (and tighten the dry pipe nut), through the big washout plug on the backhead. maybe you're right about needing a bit of wiggle room, using that hole in the fuel tank. Won't know until I try it.

Once Again, Y'All Take Care & WORK SAFE

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