> A good 7' wheel base Baldwin MCB interurban
> truck would definitely be in high demand,
> and I bet that you could build one using
> heavy bar stock, new springs, and castings
> stripped from 6'6" wheel base CTA
> trucks (which are fairly plentiful). This
> isn't to say that one of these trucks would
> be cheap - I think that 10-20K apiece would
> be hopeful - but it would be possible to do.
> I think there may be even more of a market
> for a Brill single truck, though, perhaps a
> 21 or a 79.

Baldwin always pushed the selling point that their side frames could be fabricated locally and you are right the stock can come out of a standard steel warehouse. The class one reamed fits on the bolts are just time consuming and most of the other castings could be replaced with fabrications and the equalizers flame cut. The missing part is the journal box ... the CTA's are just too small to take the 5x9 axle bearing (even replaced with a roller). The motors and gearing however are just about right to give you 50mph with 36" wheels with enough HP so that two motors would be sufficent.

I know of no practical way to simulate the exquisite Brill forged sideframe except by beefing up a flamecut piece as was done with the four wheeler 21's, but would look strange on the double truck 26's.



lamontdc@adelphia.net

Stephen,

I saw that one, too. The ending was one of the most depressing things I've ever seen. APU was a temporary rig they had set up (Honda generator I think). They were taxiing around doing preliminary checks- the generator bounced, turned over, and caught fire because they hadn't thought to tie it down securely. Ensuing fire burned plane in half. Worse yet, they had to leave the 4 freshly-overhauled P&W radial engines in place. When ice covered lake they were on top of thawed in the spring, all the remains went to the bottom.

Seems like the master mechanic died of a spinal infection which wasn't treated early enough.

Truly a sad event all around.

Good Steaming,
Hugh Odom
> ...was actually a PBS Nova episode which
> chronicled the incredible story of the
> discovery, and attempted recovery of a B-29
> abandoned in Greenland after an emergency
> landing over 50 years ago. The "Kee
> Bird" crash landed on an ice-cap in
> Greenland in 1947. As was mentioned earlier,
> the herculean effort which included
> rebuilding all four engines on-site in a
> make-shift shop, ended tragically. The
> aircraft's APU caught fire while rolling
> down the dozer-built runway as she was about
> to take to the skies.
> If I remember correctly, the extreme
> conditions also caused the death of the
> expedition's master mechanic during the
> on-site restoration.


The Ultimate Steam Page
whodom@awod.com

> Paul, are you offering couplers?

> Dave

As far as offering couplers... I would like too but the reality is I have too many irons in the fire right now. Besides I haven't seen the approval castings. But I'm told that they now exist as of last week.

Paul

Stuhr Museum
pfdx@aol.com

Mark,

I didn't see the show, but I have read several articles on this effort. It is definitely an amazing restoration story. Sure wish we could find a hidden stash of steam locomotives like that somewhere.

As I have posted here several times, the most amazing steam restoration story I've read about is the "Duke of Gloucester" in the UK (see link below). It was a 3-cylinder, Caprotti rotary cam poppet valve equipped 4-6-2 built in the 50's, which never quite lived up to its billing. BR started to save it, changed their minds, removed the cylinders, sectioned them and put them in a museum. The remains of the locomotive were sent to Barry (minus cylinders, rods, and most accessories). That didn't stop a group from buying it and fully restoring it to operation. On top of that, they replaced the undersized exhaust system with a properly sized double Kylchap, and discovered and corrected a fabrication error with the ashpan which overly restricted air flow into the firebox. The engine then lived up to its promised potential. They are finishing up an overhaul right now, in which other improvements have been made, including new cams which should significantly increase the horsepower.

Where there's a will (and $$$), there's a way.

Good Steaming,
Hugh Odom
the Ultimate Steam Page
http://www.trainweb.org/tusp

> In our world of steam locomotives we can
> point to numerous "basket case"
> restorations. But after watching "The
> Hunt for the Lost Squadron" on the
> History Channel, I believe we have seen one
> that tops them all. Pulling the remains of a
> P-38 out from under 250 feet of ice,
> transportating it back to the US and then
> restoring back to flying condition has got
> to top anything we've ever done. I know I
> got a lump in my throat when she took to the
> air for the first time in 60 years. And what
> a restoration.

> One of the most interesting moments in the
> show was at the conclusion when the narrator
> was asking Why? What possessed these folks
> to go through what they did just for an
> airplane? Well, those of us that have ever
> been involved in any kind of restoration
> know Why. I know those guys felt the same
> thing when the Glacier Girl took to the air
> as I did when 610 rolled a wheel over for
> the first time in 40 years. Whether it is an
> airplane, a steam locomotives, or an
> automobile, the true sense of pride and
> accomplishment is something you can only
> appreciate when you been involved in a
> restoration.

> I hope y'all got to see the show. If not,
> the History Channel often replays their
> programming so keep an eye out for it.

> G. Mark


Duke of Gloucester
whodom@awod.com

Stuhr Museum
pfdx@aol.com

Ahhh, it's the old planes, British trains and automobile tales... It's been discussed here many times, but there's definitely a force at work in these areas that US rail preservation hasn't tapped in to.

Fundraising, private contributions, etc... have been pointed to. It is also interesting how many of these "non US rail" artifacts are restored to operating condition -- even if they don't run that much.

That's unheard of in US railroading except when it is the unintentional result of Class One's and insurance companies limiting opportunity.

Mmmmm... jealous? I am.

Rob

trains@robertjohndavis.com

Although I have not seen this project, I think this project in WA fits into the basket case theme. I wonder what has become of this project?

Basket Case Shay
burrr@hotmail.com

The Society for the Preservation of Carter Railroad Resources (SPCRR) has for 20 years produced reproduction parts for its restorations. We now have a collection of over 300 patterns for the parts needed to restore our narrow gauge cars. The collection consists of both replica patterns and historic patterns from the West Side Lumber Co. shops.

We are now have virtually every pattern needed to produce Carter Brothers 10 and 15 ton box and flat cars, as well as an extensive collection of passenger car parts. Included in the collection are patterns for 24" and 26" single plate wheels, 4 different link and pin couplers, a narrow gauge miller hook coupler, a walk over seat, a full set of horse car undergear, including pedestals and 28" spoked wheels (a near by group has borrowed the patterns, cast a set of parts, and set a San Francisco horse car on iron wheels for the first time since 1929)

We will be taking delivery of the first new set of Carter 10 ton freight trucks manufactured in over 100 years within a month.

We have shared the patterns with many local groups, including the NCNG group in Nevada City CA, EurekaÂ’s owner Dan Markoff, and the Colorado Railroad Museum (a new wheel set for their DSP&P locomotive) We published a catalog in 1990, which is now sadly in need of revision.

You can do it, it just money (lots of it) and time (lots of that too).

Randy Hees


http://spcrr.org
hees@ix.netcom.com

> One of the most interesting moments in the
> show was at the conclusion when the narrator
> was asking Why? What possessed these folks
> to go through what they did just for an
> airplane? Well, those of us that have ever
> been involved in any kind of restoration
> know Why. I know those guys felt the same
> thing when the Glacier Girl took to the air
> as I did when 610 rolled a wheel over for
> the first time in 40 years. Whether it is an
> airplane, a steam locomotives, or an
> automobile, the true sense of pride and
> accomplishment is something you can only
> appreciate when you been involved in a
> restoration.

It's pretty simple, Mark....That airplane is worth millions of dollars, and will only appreciate in value as time goes by. Yes, they spent a ton of bucks to get it out and restore it, but it's probably already worth more than they spent; if it isn't, it will be very soon. That does not take away any of the intangibles (pride, history, labor of love, doing the impossible, etc.).

In our case, we get a locomotive or car out of a park or junkyard, spend big money restoring it, and when it's all over, the thing is not worth much more than it was when we started. The total investment is seldom, if ever, recovered. Just look at the locomotives for sale at a fraction of what it cost to restore them, yet they don't sell.

If locomotive and railroad car restorations paid off anywhere near the way warbirds do, there would be no shortage of people willing to do and spend almost anything to get more of them going.

Besides, how many operable P38's are there? And how many operable steam engines (a couple hundred)?

> Besides, how many operable P38's are there?
> And how many operable steam engines (a
> couple hundred)?

Please extend that list to include:
ge13031 ... Only one left
LSE167 .... First steel car of LSE and last to run
NKP54 ..... Last wooden coach left
plus the many "one ofs" at many sites that still don't have a lot of monetary value to them. Vintage airplanes and autos are better sellers (visit auburn,IN) with people willing to spend big bucks on them and their restoration. I guess I picked the wrong business for magnificent monetary rewards ?


lamontdc@adelphia.net

You have several cars that are waiting for ten ton trucks.

Which one is going to be the lucky recipiant?

ted_miles@nps.gov

I think the big difference is there is actually a market in the (wealthy) general public for antique planes and cars due to the fact that there is little or no restriction on their operation. The planes can use any airport that can accomodate them and available to general aviation, and old cars are as free to use the highway as local city streets. Steam locomotives on the other hand don't have this flexibility so if you can't run it anywhere, why buy one even if you have the money? Perhaps we need a taxpayer funded mainline somewhere available for everone to use - like a steel highway!