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 Post subject: Re: Should tourists/ museums railroad should be exempt from
PostPosted: Fri Jan 05, 2024 4:49 pm 

Joined: Thu Oct 08, 2015 11:54 am
Posts: 1792
Location: New Franklin, OH
Crescent-Zephyr wrote:
BnOTolSub wrote:
It would be delusional to think that a small freight railroad or non-profit can readily absorb "only" an extra $20K a year (multiplied by 10-mile increments) to purchase a system and then the additional expense to maintain and test it.


Isn't that about the same cost as a crossing signal with gate?

And honestly, if $20k is gonna kill you, your business as a railroad is not really a business to begin with. Not trying to be mean, just realistic.

Nobody WANTS to pay for extra expenses, but that's the reality of doing business.

$200k plus the expense to maintain and inspect ONE wayside detector is a big hit to any tourist railroad. It's not like we're raking in millions in profit or hauling around tank cars of vinyl chloride at 50+ mph in our tourist trains. If you have a money tree, can I get some seeds?

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 Post subject: Re: Should tourists/ museums railroad should be exempt from
PostPosted: Fri Jan 05, 2024 11:34 pm 

Joined: Wed Jan 20, 2016 1:15 pm
Posts: 1500
Don't play with trains if you can't pay the bills! haha.


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 Post subject: Re: Should tourists/ museums railroad should be exempt from
PostPosted: Sun Jan 07, 2024 2:55 pm 

Joined: Mon Jan 17, 2005 9:06 pm
Posts: 2533
Location: Thomaston & White Plains
"Crossing signal with gate".....

They aren't applied singly, but at least in pairs; more masts for more complex road and track arrangements. Plus, there's the relay bungalow, underground conduit, etc. ONE basic crossing signal mast, gate mech and 4 flashers are about $45,000 each. A simple crossing installation of gates and flashers, where the road and railroad are at 90-degree angles, is about $150,000 (in 2020 dollars). That does not include crossing surface and necessary track work.

Howard P.

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 Post subject: Re: Should tourists/ museums railroad should be exempt from
PostPosted: Sun Jan 07, 2024 5:49 pm 

Joined: Wed Nov 23, 2016 7:05 pm
Posts: 272
Howard P. wrote:
"Crossing signal with gate".....

They aren't applied singly, but at least in pairs; more masts for more complex road and track arrangements. Plus, there's the relay bungalow, underground conduit, etc. ONE basic crossing signal mast, gate mech and 4 flashers are about $45,000 each. A simple crossing installation of gates and flashers, where the road and railroad are at 90-degree angles, is about $150,000 (in 2020 dollars). That does not include crossing surface and necessary track work.

Howard P.

You must live in a cheaper alternative place. $125k is about the single-mast F&G price today, including the instrument house and basic signal installation - without all the other stuff thrown in like insulated joints, pavement work and striping/marking, environment restoration/finishing, etc.. Anything with any additional considerations is well over $500k all in, and surface can easily add 50% or more if you're going with modern crossing systems. And adding in coincident traffic lights, either coordinated or preemption, adds even more (headaches included at no charge).

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 Post subject: Re: Should tourists/ museums railroad should be exempt from
PostPosted: Sun Jan 07, 2024 5:57 pm 

Joined: Mon Jan 17, 2005 9:06 pm
Posts: 2533
Location: Thomaston & White Plains
"You must live in a cheaper alternative place."

Have you been to Connecticut lately? Not an inexpensive place to do anything.

Again, that's a three year old price, and it's just the signal work, no the crossing surface, paving, police coverage, electrical power, track in crossing and approaches. WRRS Model 10 gates and 12" LED flashers, 12 of them. A nice walk-in bungalow. Digital video cams and event recorder. And a good contractor, working to a good specification.

Howard P.

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 Post subject: Re: Should tourists/ museums railroad should be exempt from
PostPosted: Sun Feb 11, 2024 6:40 pm 
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Joined: Fri Oct 24, 2008 9:05 pm
Posts: 1054
Location: MA
$200K for a hotbox dector? Does any of these items need to be certified in any way? It seems like you can just build one yourself quite inexpensively. Also Don't cities and states pay for the cost of installing railroad crossings?


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 Post subject: Re: Should tourists/ museums railroad should be exempt from
PostPosted: Mon Feb 12, 2024 2:11 pm 

Joined: Fri Feb 13, 2015 2:48 pm
Posts: 183
I seem to recall in the past that who was responsible for the maintenance of grade crossings varies from state to state, and in some instances county or city. I've heard that in some places the state (or whatever governmental agency that is responsible for non state or federal roads) maintains the actual pavement in a crossing and the railroad is responsible for "the adequate control of the intersection". Which means something as simple as a cross buck in each direction on up to flashing lights and gongs with gates. This has probably all changed by now.


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 Post subject: Re: Should tourists/ museums railroad should be exempt from
PostPosted: Mon Feb 12, 2024 9:42 pm 

Joined: Fri Feb 26, 2010 9:52 pm
Posts: 161
Each state has regulatory authority (DOT or PUC, etc.) over public crossings themselves, including the pavement marking, approaches, and advanced warning signs. Most follow the Manual on Uniform Traffic Control Devices (MUTCD) for all signage, active warning, etc. They have the authority regarding opening, closing, upgrading or anything involving that crossing. Once installed, the railroad will maintain the warning signs at the crossing and are responsible for maintaining the active warning as required in 49 CFR Part 234.

With that said, there are some cities in some states that do not fall under that state authority and can follow MUTCD...or not. The railroad is still responsible for the passive or active warning at the crossing.

MDR


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 Post subject: Re: Should tourists/ museums railroad should be exempt from
PostPosted: Tue Feb 13, 2024 1:35 pm 
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Joined: Fri Oct 24, 2008 9:05 pm
Posts: 1054
Location: MA
Yes I'm pretty sure the railroad has to maintain it but the town have to pay for it. This is a big issue with Bright Line and politicians complaining about how the taxpayer had to pay for the crossing upgrades, I think bright line agreed to install some at their own cost so that some of the communities to drop their lawsuits against them but it was mostly government money that paid for the upgrades.
Also a lot of railroad museums and some smaller railroads run on tracks that are owned by government entities I'm pretty sure in those cases they get reimbursed for maintenance and upgrades.


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 Post subject: Re: Should tourists/ museums railroad should be exempt from
PostPosted: Tue Feb 13, 2024 2:26 pm 

Joined: Tue Sep 14, 2004 7:52 am
Posts: 2573
Location: Strasburg, PA
MD Ramsey wrote:
the railroad will maintain the warning signs at the crossing and are responsible for maintaining the active warning
And the private sector is responsible for buying the shotgun shells used to blast holes in those signs...


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 Post subject: Re: Should tourists/ museums railroad should be exempt from
PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2024 2:28 am 

Joined: Wed Jul 26, 2017 4:24 pm
Posts: 113
Kelly Anderson wrote:
MD Ramsey wrote:
the railroad will maintain the warning signs at the crossing and are responsible for maintaining the active warning
And the private sector is responsible for buying the shotgun shells used to blast holes in those signs...


That sign was coming right for me, I felt in fear if my life


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 Post subject: Re: Should tourists/ museums railroad should be exempt from
PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2024 10:57 am 

Joined: Tue Sep 14, 2004 7:52 am
Posts: 2573
Location: Strasburg, PA
Bobulltech wrote:
That sign was coming right for me, I felt in fear if my life
Just exercising his constitutional rights...


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