I am not involved with the Waterloo Central, so I hope I am not speaking out of turn. However, one assumes the group will still need plenty of kind donations to get No. 1238 moved to St. Jacobs and back in the hauling business.
Also, former Essex Terminal 0-6-0 No. 9 is getting a new firebox, so she will also need some admirers'' help.

Hart never said why Kantner picked 1238. But Howard's story is as good as any!

He did say both engines were no or low-mileage, and fairly recently shopped prior to retirement by the CPR. Why 1238 was on the dead line next to the last to be scrapped is a mystery.

K.R. Bell

Here is what Hart told me in a 1997 oral history interview I did with him:

" ... I knew that the Canadian Pacific had a subsidized retirement program, of which 200 of their best, and lowest mileage locomotives were retired on a subsidized basis. These locomotives were to be of various classes, so that they would be available for any part of the system. They were retired at the rate of two per month, beginning May 1, 1960. So when December 31, 1965 came around, they were ready to sell the last one, which was the 972. I always liked these ten-wheelers wherever I saw them, which was whenever I was up to New Brunswick to see the American-types operating. They came out in 1905 and they were built, or ordered by, as late as 1913. There again, they would be the ideal engine for New Hope. The Pacifics are alright, too. In fact, they're a little better, due to the fact they have a trailing wheel when going backwards. I took my first airplane ride on the trip to Winnipeg to inspect steam locomotives, and Ben [Kantner] was with me. Ben didn't mind the air, he had done that before. CP had no Ten-Wheelers on their list at that time. But they suggested four numbers—all of them 1200's. We went out to see them [on a] personal inspection. The 1286 was a no-mileage engine. The 1238 had 19,000 [miles] on it, which was nothing. And the other two engines did not have international certificates. These two did because they could run on the Soo Line. So their specs were on file both at Ottawa and at the I.C.C. in Washington [D.C.]. That's why we picked those two. And also because there were no Ten-Wheelers available . The two Pacifics were in a string of twelve locos. The cutting torches had been set out at the twelfth engine behind it! They were right in line, in other words, to be scrapped. I paid for them not too long after we were there—I'd say not much longer than two weeks. Ben knew the Canadian Pacific was a good road. These [engines] weren't worn out—they had been set aside because they were in good condition. The 1286 was shopped in January 1957, and never called-on. We were out there in 1963, I think. They remained in Canada for another year after I bought them. They came to Pennsylvania in 1965. 1238 did not run for a long time [August 1967]. We first ran the 1286 in 1965. But then came the battle cry: 'They're too heavy for the road,' the M&PA was saying. Then they wouldn't let us go over the wood trestles. So we would only go as far as Yoe. But the M&PA did make a run-around track for us at Yoe to get around three cars. The 972 went into service in 1966. CP wanted all [steam] engines off its books by December 31, 1965. After M&PA deadlocked us on not running the Pacifics across the trestles did I go ahead and buy the 972. I had wanted two D10's but I didn't know of any numbers. None were available in 1963. In September 1965, I wrote [to the M&PA] for two [locomotives]. That's when the 972 was left. I found out years later from Omer Lavallee that the 975 had been cut up just shortly before I had arrived. Otherwise, I wouldn't have bought the 1098 from Steamtown."

Kurt,

That jibes with what I was told-- that both were international engines (a plus-- Blount didn't pay attention to that, and had some hoops to jump through as a result), and that "the torches were ready to cut" 1238 and 1286. I recall being told, "The inspection was done on a weekend, and they had stopped cutting on Friday." Not sure exactly how factual that part was, but the GMH interview confirms most of what I remember hearing.

And I think 972 was also an international engine.

Howard P.