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 Post subject: 6 wheel passenger trucks for lightweight cars
PostPosted: Tue Sep 26, 2023 11:02 pm 

Joined: Mon Nov 26, 2007 2:54 am
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Location: Califoothills / Midwest Prairies / PNW
I recently became aware that some lightweight cars were outfitted with a GSC lightweight truck in 6-wheel arrangement. A car body that I know of which used them, and probably still needs them, is the Illinois Central "Gulfport" at Monticello. Is even one set of these trucks around in preservation?


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 Post subject: Re: 6 wheel passenger trucks for lightweight cars
PostPosted: Wed Sep 27, 2023 12:25 am 

Joined: Sat Oct 17, 2015 5:55 pm
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o anderson wrote:
I recently became aware that some lightweight cars were outfitted with a GSC lightweight truck in 6-wheel arrangement. A car body that I know of which used them, and probably still needs them, is the Illinois Central "Gulfport" at Monticello. Is even one set of these trucks around in preservation?

I only was able to find one in-service photo of the Gulfport (IC 3312) and it looks like the truck on the tail is 4-wheel. https://www.flickr.com/photos/john_stev ... 5968134837 Edit: I also found the top photo of the Gulfport, but it is hard to see at that angle.

The car below may be a lightweight car (or then again could be a modernized heavyweight car) is painted for IC and has six axle trucks, it was part of a restaurant at the Lincoln IL former GM&O station, but was donated to Iowa Pacific, who then let it be vandalized, and I think it was eventually scrapped. I am not sure of the number:


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 Post subject: Re: 6 wheel passenger trucks for lightweight cars
PostPosted: Wed Sep 27, 2023 1:40 am 

Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 12:56 am
Posts: 477
Location: Northern California
The Southern Pacific business car, Sunset, car 150, built in 1955 was built with 6 wheel trucks. I was told this because the car was so heavy, but it also could have been to provide a better ride. I believe the car is still in service on the Union Pacific.


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 Post subject: Re: 6 wheel passenger trucks for lightweight cars
PostPosted: Wed Sep 27, 2023 11:14 am 

Joined: Wed Mar 01, 2006 4:29 pm
Posts: 82
Location: Monticello, IL
o anderson wrote:
I recently became aware that some lightweight cars were outfitted with a GSC lightweight truck in 6-wheel arrangement. A car body that I know of which used them, and probably still needs them, is the Illinois Central "Gulfport" at Monticello. Is even one set of these trucks around in preservation?


Don't know what your source is for that information regarding Gulfport, but it was, along with the rest of the new equipment built in 1942 for the new, streamlined Panama Limited, built with two-axle trucks.

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File comment: ICRR car diagram for Obs cars Gulfport and Memphis.
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However, ICRR did extensive car work at their Burnside Shops in Chicago, taking many, many old heavyweight cars, stripping them to the center sill, and building new carbodies on the remaining frame, resulting in a first-glance appearance of a lightweight streamlined car. The cars were still heavy, so re-utilizing the three axle trucks was necessary, and those too were modified with roller bearings, bolster anchors, and truck mounted brake cylinders/slack adjusters for satisfactory use at ICRR's 100+ mph speeds between Champaign, IL, and Branch Jct., just north of Centralia, IL. Maybe photos of one of those with a round end has someone confused?


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 Post subject: Re: 6 wheel passenger trucks for lightweight cars
PostPosted: Thu Sep 28, 2023 5:22 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 9:16 am
Posts: 495
Location: Northern Illinois
I suspect that the observation is IC 3320, "Paducah" which was rebuilt from heavyweight coach 2173 for the Louisville - Fulton of the "City of New Orleans". The window pattern matches that of 3320 which was originally a "coach-lounge-observation". It may have had an interior reconfiguration after this service to make it a full lounge. Further, I would guess that the train that it is on is the "City of Miami" with a repainted NP dome sleeper and a stainless steel car in the consist.

As for lightweight cars with six wheel trucks, the GM&O received eleven coaches in 1947 and four parlor cars in late 1947/early 1948 that rode on six wheel trucks.

In 1956, Missouri Pacific received six 10-6 sleepers with six wheel trucks. Greg Stout's "Route of the Eagles - Missouri Pacific in the Streamlined Era" speculates that the cars were equipped with these truck for operation on the branch to Hot Springs, AR, which was laid with relatively light rail.


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 Post subject: Re: 6 wheel passenger trucks for lightweight cars
PostPosted: Thu Sep 28, 2023 8:27 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 29, 2004 4:49 pm
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"However, ICRR did extensive car work at their Burnside Shops in Chicago, taking many, many old heavyweight cars, stripping them to the center sill, and building new carbodies on the remaining frame, resulting in a first-glance appearance of a lightweight streamlined car. The cars were still heavy, so re-utilizing the three axle trucks was necessary, and those too were modified with roller bearings, bolster anchors, and truck mounted brake cylinders/slack adjusters for satisfactory use at ICRR's 100+ mph speeds between Champaign, IL, and Branch Jct., just north of Centralia, IL."


Many of the IC heavyweight rebuilds received all-new outside swing hanger three axle trucks, such as is seen under the car in the picture that was part of the restaurant.

Additional non-baggage/storage mail/baggage RPO postwar lightweight cars with three axle outside swing hanger trucks include the New Haven 1948 "American Flyer" diners and grill diners built by Pullman-Standard at their Worcester, MA plant.


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 Post subject: Re: 6 wheel passenger trucks for lightweight cars
PostPosted: Thu Sep 28, 2023 9:32 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 9:16 am
Posts: 495
Location: Northern Illinois
I almost forgot all of the Union Pacific lightweight baggage cars on six wheel trucks, some of which went to RBB&B for elephant cars. Only one made it to Amtrak, their number 1139, but it perished in the Bayou Canot tragedy on No. 2.


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 Post subject: Re: 6 wheel passenger trucks for lightweight cars
PostPosted: Fri Sep 29, 2023 1:26 am 

Joined: Mon Nov 26, 2007 2:54 am
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Location: Califoothills / Midwest Prairies / PNW
thanks for correcting my info on the car at the Monticello Railway Museum.

Sorry, my source for the reference to Gulfport must have been a badly characterized postcard on Ebay. The car in question on this image is 3305, probably a converted heavyweight. I think it was later owned by Iowa Pacific.
Image


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 Post subject: Re: 6 wheel passenger trucks for lightweight cars
PostPosted: Fri Sep 29, 2023 7:40 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 29, 2004 4:49 pm
Posts: 519
"I almost forgot all of the Union Pacific lightweight baggage cars on six wheel trucks, some of which went to RBB&B for elephant cars. Only one made it to Amtrak, their number 1139, but it perished in the Bayou Canot tragedy on No. 2."

Amtrak actually ended up with one other 85' ex-UP baggage car that was built with 3 axle OSH trucks. I don't have the number off hand, but I believe it was an ex-Alaska RR car via a PV car shop to Amtrak. The PV shop swapped the 3 axle trucks - which had high value at the time - and replaced them with a set of OSH 2 axle trucks from another UP car. This car was one that was sold off during the big Amtrak baggage car/diner/crew dorm sell-off of 2017.


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 Post subject: Re: 6 wheel passenger trucks for lightweight cars
PostPosted: Sat Sep 30, 2023 9:54 am 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 9:16 am
Posts: 495
Location: Northern Illinois
[quote="o anderson"]thanks for correcting my info on the car at the Monticello Railway Museum.

Sorry, my source for the reference to Gulfport must have been a badly characterized postcard on Ebay. The car in question on this image is 3305, probably a converted heavyweight. I think it was later owned by Iowa Pacific.
[img]https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Ftse3.mm.bing.net%2Fth%3Fid%3DOIP.Zt118uduhvAh9eED-C8O_AHaFj%26pid%3DApi&f=1&ipt=98dd38099cad364f5ff37ecc4fb4773bb70e8850b584e414c6141974c8703442&ipo=images[/img][/quote]


I don't believe that the car initially pictured in this thread is 3305. 3305 has five windows in the rear observation and lounge portion. The car pictured has six windows which was the window arrangement in "Paducah". Of course, it is possible that one of the windows could have been sealed over.


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 Post subject: Re: 6 wheel passenger trucks for lightweight cars
PostPosted: Sat Sep 30, 2023 3:22 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 8:51 pm
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Location: Southern California
Don C. wrote:
I almost forgot all of the Union Pacific lightweight baggage cars on six wheel trucks, some of which went to RBB&B for elephant cars.
Only the UP 6300 series (6300-6324) of 85' baggage cars had 6-wheel trucks. At 85' over pulling faces these were some of the largest baggage cars built.

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 Post subject: Re: 6 wheel passenger trucks for lightweight cars
PostPosted: Sat Sep 30, 2023 3:31 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 8:51 pm
Posts: 2034
Location: Southern California
6-wheel trucks in the modern era were under the Budd-built full domes on the Great Northern and the Santa Fe. Also the Santa Fe hi-level dining cars for the El Capitan rode on 6-wheel trucks.

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