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 Post subject: Sierra RR # 18 2-8-0 present status
PostPosted: Mon Sep 18, 2023 11:59 am 

Joined: Tue Jun 13, 2017 3:54 pm
Posts: 5
This is especially for you folks in Oregon. I understand that the collection has been moved and someone has acquired the Sierra RR # 18 2-8-0. I also wanted to acquire it but was not a member of the cool kids in crowd so I was not able to acquire it for the NCRy and see it restored to operation by them. So, where is the #18 now, what is its present status, and what are the owner's plans for it?


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 Post subject: Re: Sierra RR # 18 2-8-0 present status
PostPosted: Mon Sep 18, 2023 9:05 pm 

Joined: Sat Oct 17, 2015 5:55 pm
Posts: 2169
Patricio wrote:
This is especially for you folks in Oregon. I understand that the collection has been moved and someone has acquired the Sierra RR # 18 2-8-0. I also wanted to acquire it but was not a member of the cool kids in crowd so I was not able to acquire it for the NCRy and see it restored to operation by them. So, where is the #18 now, what is its present status, and what are the owner's plans for it?

The last I heard was this article, which said it was sold to a "private individual." https://railfan.com/shay-locomotive-fin ... st-scenic/


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 Post subject: Re: Sierra RR # 18 2-8-0 present status
PostPosted: Tue Sep 19, 2023 3:32 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 1:51 pm
Posts: 11345
Location: Somewhere east of Prescott, AZ along the old Santa Fe "Prescott & Eastern"
Patricio wrote:
This is especially for you folks in Oregon. I understand that the collection has been moved and someone has acquired the Sierra RR # 18 2-8-0. I also wanted to acquire it but was not a member of the cool kids in crowd so I was not able to acquire it for the NCRy and see it restored to operation by them.


I highly doubt that this has anything to do with being "a member of the cool kids in crowd." Heck, I'd love it if NCRY would get and run it.

If I have an asset that I want to see preserved for the long term, be it a book, a car, a house, a photo collection, or a locomotive, I'm going to vet the heck out of the prospective buyer or "donatee." And that would be my right, if not indeed somewhat a "moral obligation" in the case of historically or culturally important artifacts.

If you were attempting to acquire it for the Niles Canyon Railway, as a seller and estate liquidator I'd come back with a few questions:
Does the NCRY actually WANT it? Will their BOD put that desire in writing?
If "you" acquire it, who moves it, at whose expense, and how fast?
Are you offering money or asking for a donation? (Remember, this was an estate liquidation. In such cases, "money talks," whether or not you're in what you think is "the cool kids in crowd.")

I have seen acrimonious eruptions, to the point of litigation evolving, over parties acting "on behalf of" non-profits without proper authorization or coordination. And in one case, I saw a steam locomotive scrapped that shouldn't have been because of well-meaning but mishandled actions, and I'm warily watching another that has some emotion to me that could end up the same way.


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 Post subject: Re: Sierra RR # 18 2-8-0 present status
PostPosted: Tue Sep 19, 2023 4:27 pm 

Joined: Fri Jul 27, 2018 9:52 pm
Posts: 4
You very much had to be part of the cool kid crowd. I tried for months to buy the SMV 100 for MRSR, emails, phone calls and even visits to OSCR went unanswered. Then poof off to V&T it went. It was very obvious to many players in the Pacific Northwest that friends got the good stuff and the junk went everywhere else.


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 Post subject: Re: Sierra RR # 18 2-8-0 present status
PostPosted: Tue Sep 19, 2023 9:29 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 1:51 pm
Posts: 11345
Location: Somewhere east of Prescott, AZ along the old Santa Fe "Prescott & Eastern"
Baldwinnut70 wrote:
You very much had to be part of the cool kid crowd. I tried for months to buy the SMV 100 for MRSR, emails, phone calls and even visits to OSCR went unanswered. Then poof off to V&T it went. It was very obvious to many players in the Pacific Northwest that friends got the good stuff and the junk went everywhere else.


Here we run into a couple factors:

1) The deceased past owner was notoriously "eccentric" by most preservation standards, and (seemingly) refused to work with other would-be preservationists with regards to "his" stuff while alive. The executor of the estate, to my knowledge, has not been openly forthcoming with whatever methodology was involved with selecting new owners (be it written orders of the deceased owner, top dollar, his judgement, or whatever).
And you know what? THAT'S FINE. It's a free country. The past owner was perfectly within his rights to do or order whatever he wanted with HIS stuff, including scrapping. We may have wanted Sierra 36 to go back to the Sierra RR, but so what? At least that option still survives today, sometime in the future. We didn't have that luxury with GTW 5629 or several other now extinct locos. I don't hear people demanding Great Western 60 and 90 be "repatriated" to Colorado instead of staying at the Black River & Western and Strasburg RRs. Only a fool complains about the steamers Dai Woodham & Co. did end up scrapping in South Wales.

2) Quite a few people I know in the preservation field, both on the organizational level and the private side, are at a minimum highly skeptical of, and at worst are openly hostile to, efforts to "give them more work" without asking for their opinions or interest first. Nobody who wants to be a responsible caretaker of a railroad or museum wants a truck full of random car parts, a vanload of books and magazines, or a locomotive or freight car on a flatbed truck showing up at the gate without advance notice and consultation (although I recently did that with a local museum and a single employee TT.....).

So, again I will ask (of a different party):

Were you offering to buy it for Mount Rainier Scenic RR as a surprise gift, or were you attempting to buy it on behalf of the MRSR with their input and your money?


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 Post subject: Re: Sierra RR # 18 2-8-0 present status
PostPosted: Wed Sep 20, 2023 12:26 pm 

Joined: Fri Jul 27, 2018 9:52 pm
Posts: 4
I was buying with my money for Mt. Rainier Scenic Railroad, Which I manage as well as have help fund with MY money, so that we would have a 4th good rod locomotive to fill out the stable for our long term plans. Unfortunately there is a lot of bad blood between MRSR and OCSR from years and managers past, which I am afraid muddied the water for the deal. I am sorry but I don't remember seeing your name anywhere near the liquidation of the Kepner Collection, meanwhile myself and others watched how it was handled. So again, I say you had to be part of the Cool Kid Crowd to even have a chance to get anything.

As well as I know who the owner is and I will be very surprised if the locomotive ever runs again.


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 Post subject: Re: Sierra RR # 18 2-8-0 present status
PostPosted: Wed Sep 20, 2023 10:52 pm 

Joined: Sat Mar 05, 2005 2:46 am
Posts: 147
Location: Elko, NV
Baldwinnut70 wrote:
As well as I know who the owner is and I will be very surprised if the locomotive ever runs again.


Care to elaborate a bit on this statement?

100 is actively getting worked on in the shop at Virginia City with a goal at least now of operating by June of next year.

Jeff Moore
Elko, NV


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 Post subject: Re: Sierra RR # 18 2-8-0 present status
PostPosted: Thu Sep 21, 2023 12:07 am 

Joined: Mon Jul 13, 2020 12:29 am
Posts: 185
my not so important thoughts...

First.
Yes there is a cool kids club centered around Bend, OR.

@Patricio
You want Sierra #18 to join #12, #32 and Pickering #5. All of them was operational when
acquired by PLA...and the status now? Why not restore them instead looking for a steamer
in the worst condition possible?
And what about the 2 SP Pacifics and the 0-6-0?
The last time I talked with the NCRy about buy one of then 3 geared locomotives in the
1990s...the answer was "there are the core of our collection, will run immediately and
not for sell at any amount".
Then the next 20 years most of activity was go out and buy any diesel electric switcher
you found. And the last 3 years is everything about 1744 because someone find a manifest
who say that lokie run sometimes in Niles Canyon.
And to talk to OCSR is easy for NCRy. The owner of your leased steam locomotive had it
restored by them for a lot of money. So the communication Sunol-Willits-Tillamook is easy.
By the way, why tf did NCRy lease Skookum when they have Clover Valley 2-6-6-2T,
Quincy 2-6-2T and Woodard 2-6-2T running? Are there funds to renew the 1472 when that
days coming?
Maybe some locomotive seller see that like I do...

Oh I forget.
There is a direct communication channel between NCRy and OCSR.
Sierra #32 Boiler repair and Sunset Timber #1...exchange...
Maybe here go something wrong...?


Last edited by linkthebutler on Thu Sep 21, 2023 12:56 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Sierra RR # 18 2-8-0 present status
PostPosted: Thu Sep 21, 2023 12:19 am 

Joined: Mon Jul 13, 2020 12:29 am
Posts: 185
@Baldwinnut70

So between the passing of Fred Kepner and the acquiring of McCormick Lumber 100
(I wondering that you WA guy call it SMV 100) by V&T there was maybe a time of
great jeopardy for whatever was called MRSR then???
Actually I did not know then and now who owns it, who have the title for the rolling stock
and the locomotives, ownership or traction rights to the track?
And 2 thoughts...
...4th rod locomotive? Why not put YOUR money to restore their 1st, Carlton and Coast 55?
To my understanding it is not on any list for restoration in the near or far future?
...When YOUR money is big enough for planning to buy, ship and restore the worn out
100 as additional 2-8-2 for MRSR... Why the hell you did not buy Saginaw Timber #2
operational with some 1472 time left last year?

Just my thoughts, sorry...


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 Post subject: Re: Sierra RR # 18 2-8-0 present status
PostPosted: Thu Sep 21, 2023 11:02 am 

Joined: Sat Aug 14, 2021 9:10 pm
Posts: 11
Actually, there's been quite a bit of buzz on social media around MRSR number 5. They've been going through it to see what all it needs to run. It sounds like it needs basically everything, but it's still pretty exciting for the fans.


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 Post subject: Re: Sierra RR # 18 2-8-0 present status
PostPosted: Thu Sep 21, 2023 5:58 pm 

Joined: Sat Oct 17, 2015 5:55 pm
Posts: 2169
Baldwinnut70 wrote:
Unfortunately there is a lot of bad blood between MRSR and OCSR from years and managers past, which I am afraid muddied the water for the deal.

A bit off-topic, but OCSR had ties stolen recently, right from under the rail, which is a first for me. It would be funny to suggest it is MRSR, because I can't think of any way this caper would be worth it otherwise. https://www.trains.com/trn/news-reviews ... -railroad/


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 Post subject: Re: Sierra RR # 18 2-8-0 present status
PostPosted: Fri Sep 22, 2023 12:20 pm 

Joined: Sat Mar 02, 2013 3:33 pm
Posts: 122
PMC wrote:
Baldwinnut70 wrote:
Unfortunately there is a lot of bad blood between MRSR and OCSR from years and managers past, which I am afraid muddied the water for the deal.

A bit off-topic, but OCSR had ties stolen recently, right from under the rail, which is a first for me. It would be funny to suggest it is MRSR, because I can't think of any way this caper would be worth it otherwise. https://www.trains.com/trn/news-reviews ... -railroad/


PMC:

Did I read this correct? You're alleging another tourist railroad is stealing used ties from OCSR? In a world of shady landscaping companies, tweakers and all sorts of people of poor standing, you'd accuse a tourist railroad?


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 Post subject: Re: Sierra RR # 18 2-8-0 present status
PostPosted: Fri Sep 22, 2023 12:43 pm 

Joined: Tue Jun 13, 2017 3:54 pm
Posts: 5
"PMC: Did I read this correct?"
My guess is that you did not.


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 Post subject: Re: Sierra RR # 18 2-8-0 present status
PostPosted: Fri Sep 22, 2023 12:47 pm 

Joined: Tue Jun 13, 2017 3:54 pm
Posts: 5
Again, if any one knows, "So==
where is the #18 now?
what is the 18's present status?
and
what are the owner's plans for it?"
Regards,
Patricio


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 Post subject: Re: Sierra RR # 18 2-8-0 present status
PostPosted: Fri Sep 22, 2023 12:51 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 1:51 pm
Posts: 11345
Location: Somewhere east of Prescott, AZ along the old Santa Fe "Prescott & Eastern"
msrlha_archivist wrote:
PMC wrote:
Baldwinnut70 wrote:
Unfortunately there is a lot of bad blood between MRSR and OCSR from years and managers past, which I am afraid muddied the water for the deal.

A bit off-topic, but OCSR had ties stolen recently, right from under the rail, which is a first for me. It would be funny to suggest it is MRSR, because I can't think of any way this caper would be worth it otherwise. https://www.trains.com/trn/news-reviews ... -railroad/


PMC:

Did I read this correct? You're alleging another tourist railroad is stealing used ties from OCSR? In a world of shady landscaping companies, tweakers and all sorts of people of poor standing, you'd accuse a tourist railroad?


I don't have any proverbial "dog in this fight," but................

I've seen scrap RR metal stolen from railroads in the form of tie plates, joint bars, copper wire, etc.
I've seen rail pulled aside to clear a path for an unofficial road. But almost never for scrap in North America because they're just too long and heavy to be easily stolen/relocated without heavy equipment.
I've seen/heard of scrap ties being stolen from massive piles of removed ties awaiting trucking or flat-car relocation.
I've had people "a few bricks short of a load" that have asked me how to get used ties from the RR to use in building a stable, barn, OR HOUSE. (I am not making this up. I heavily dissuaded them by telling them how much creosote is involved.... I hope.)

But this would be the first time I have ever seen, or even heard of, ties/sleepers being stolen out from under supposedly active or even abandoned tracks, even in the most destitute Third World countries.

To me, this lends credence to the idea that this involves sabotage, not just theft.


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