Can you tow a cold steam locomotive within a train while rods and pistons still connected.

Is there a rule of thumb how long, how far or how many rotations this is ok without steam helping lubricate?

What parts are most vulnerable moving without steam, pistons?, slide valves?, piston valves?

Most steam locomotives have a mechanical oiler in service and like other parts of a modern steamer, it requires steam and heat to keep it operation. The oil used in mechanical lubrication is fairly thick and runs best when hot, meaning steam heat. See where I'm going? Pistons an cylinders do not wear well over distances if they are dragged.
Better mechanics will not doubt chime in, but in short, maybe with roller bearings on the rods, very slowly with frequent oiling and heat checks with friction bearing rods, never with the pistons attached.

The answer is, "don't". Walking speed in the yard, fine, but nothing more.

We just did this last month to attend a celebration in Odense, and steam is not allowed in the tunnel/bridge between islands. It is annoying work. We had to remove the main rods and the eccentric rods. And then you have to protect all those bearing surfaces and transport the parts separately. And then hope that everything goes back together without damage at the other end. And do it with less than optimal lifting tools.

In Guatemala, I dragged an engine with everything connected for 27 miles, under the direct orders of my superior. We went slow. I stopped every mile or so, we oiled around and checked for hot pins, etc, and we pulled the inspection plugs out of the piston valves and dumped valve oil into the valves. Since it was around 100 degrees, the metal parts were warm, and we left the valve oil pots on top of the tender so the sun would heat them up. We made it, but I would have never done that if I had been the one who had to sign off on it...

Steam oil has a tendency to "atomize" in the Steam supply going to the cylinders, allowing the oil to lubricate every surface. Without steam, the oil doesn't flow as well since it is cold, and will flow down to and lubricate only the lowest points. Most mechanical lubricators put the oil in at or just above the valve and use the steam to carry it into the cylinder. Without that, it's more difficult to get lubricant down in the cylinder itself. If the engine relies on a hydrostatic lubricator, they won't get any oil at all from it. This is why any 'dead in tow' move you see across more than small distances will usually (and absolutely should) have the pistons and valves disconnected in some way via removal of the main rod and eccentric rod, or removal of the piston/valve entirely. I have seen static museums remove the piston from the piston rod, and the valve entirely, to allow movement without worrying about this, since outwardly you won't be able to tell.

Axle and rod bearings don't rely on steam and heat for lubrication in the same way, so as long as they are clean and well lubricated, they can roll just fine. If it's an engine that hasn't moved in some time, pay special attention to this. Feel for any warm/hot bearings, squealing, ect. Always take care and go slow if possible. You want to get under and inspect the axle bearing surfaces for rust, dust, debris, ect. that can get in and cause scoring, and clean them up if possible before the move.

Moving across the yard? Not a big deal. Lube it up and go slowly. Longer than that up to a few miles? Same thing. Take it slow, stop periodically (read: often) to add more oil, watch for warning signs that damage could be happening. Any longer distances than that, and you really do want to pull rods to immobilize the pistons and valves. In my opinion, that's where damage is most at risk of happening due to lubricating problems. As Sammy mentioned: remove the piston or valve plugs and get copious amounts of oil inside.

Make sure that any point that can take oil or grease gets it. Not sure? Give it some oil anyways- it won't hurt it. Don't forget things like the radial buffer, tender trucks, lead/trailing trucks, drive boxes, ect.

It's hard to be too careful when conducting a move like this, I would recommend taking every precaution you can.

-Sam A.

Back when the old Heber Creeper was starting up, volunteers moved UP #618 out of the State Fair grounds under her own power with compressed air in the boiler, and panel track under her wheels. When they reached live rail, they went to arrange with UP to tow her from Salt Lake to Provo (45 miles away) to deliver her to the Rio Grande, and hence to the Heber Branch.

As it was told to me, the local UP officer in charge in Salt Lake refused to cooperate, and the volunteers went over his head and found a higher-up to overrule him. They got word that UP would indeed tow the engine, and went down to the track she was on to see about pulling the main rods, and found that she was gone! The first officer received his orders, and in a fit of pique had ordered a local TR-5 cow & calf to drop what they were doing and haul #618 to Provo, 45 miles away.

They caught up to the special making track speed on the way to Provo, with nothing to be done to stop its progress. It seemed that they must have added enough oil to the engines to to keep them from burning up, for while they were pretty worn out, the condition that she was in when she arrived in Provo was the condition that she ran in until at least the mid 1990's.

For the sake of clarity to those reading this, DO NOT DO THAT if you need to move an engine dead a considerable distance.

I do not claim to be an expert in anyway (disclaimer).

I do believe when moving the 2716 from New Haven to Ravenna all KSHCO did was remove the piston rods and lubricated the running gear accordingly. I believe they were timed doing nearly 50 mph behind Clinchfield 800 at one point. Explained by their CMO, they said that by leaving all rods intact, and removing the connection to the piston the balance of the engine was intact and was able to be towed at track speed. Roller bearing axels and regular use of the alemite gun and 2716 made it without incident to my knowledge.

To add a bit to my other reply: When I started working in Guatemala, the crews were using Journaltex in the hydrostatic lubricators. It made a thin waxy syrup that was useless for lubrication. NEVER use Journaltex (or equivalent) to lubricate piston rod or valve stem packing --- it will bake on, forming a sticky glaze. This goes for dead in tow movements, too, it will form a glaze next time the engine is fired. (I suppose if you're moving a permanently dead display or exhibit engine, it's OK for every moving part).

Dumping valve oil into the inspection ports, does only lubricate the lower parts of the bores, but that is where they bear the weight of the pistons and valves.

Unfortunately, I've witnessed yard crews in both Mexico and Guatemala move dead steam engines without ANY oil in the valves and cylinders. You can tell for sure that the rings are screwing up the bores (or vice versa) by the loud, blood curdling uuuurk!!! uuuurk!!! uuuurk!!! sound as the wheels turn.

The first engineer to be promoted on diesel by the Colorado & Southern Ry hostled and fired steam for a few years first, and fortunately he is still alive, alert, and available when I need the advice of a senior engineman. He tells me that moving dead engines around the shop area was routine in steam days, and that they could be charged with air by hooking them to another engine, the roundhouse air line, or by towing them with the reversor lined opposite the direction of motion and opening the throttle. They of course slobbered everything up real good, and he told me that making a move or two that way didn't hurt anything.

Its in the documents of both the SP and the AT&SF to tow a locomotive with just the piston rings missing over long distances. The advantage of this is that by not dropping the main rod you better match the cyintripical forces comming from the rotation of the drivers counter balance than you would by dropping the main rod. The reduction in dynamic augment allows for a faster towing speed.

Remember the major locomotive builders were shipping locomotives to El Paso, Texas into WWII and the locomotives of the Prosperity Special were formally recieved by the SP in LA and Sacramento via the Sunset Route. If a locomotive is set up right you can tow a locomotive a long way with proper en route lubrication.

I have heard stories of locomotives drivers picking themselves off the rail because the unbalanced forces created by the unbalanced counter balances. The move of T&P 610 between Ft. Worth and the Texas State RR created one such story. Is it true?

Robby Peartree

In my youth we actually pulled the pistons and separated the piston rods at the crossheads in New Haven, Indiana so 2716 could be towed to New Haven, Kentucky back to KRM. It moved from Irondale, Alabama to FWRHS in New Haven, Indiana the same way in the early 1990s.

There is an Alaska Railroad record of materials and supplies purchased from the U.S. Army between July, 1942 and January, 1946 that includes large quantities of cars, rail, rail hardware, and shop equipment. A November, 1944 entry was for the purchase of (USATC) 3523, which became ARR 557. costs included $58,072.53 for the locomotive, $1,443.12 for transportation from Eddystone, PA to Prince Rupert, Canada, and $122.98 for a messenger. I have often wondered how the locomotive was prepared for the move.

When Korea's Yeongdeungpo Shop was overhauling MiKa-5 2-8-2's for service in the coal-burning area in the Southwest of Korea, they were shipped cold, dead in tow. Main and eccentric rods were in the tender and the pins wrapped with waterproof covers. Seoul area engines burned oil.

BTW the principal coal burning enginehouse was a place called I Ri. I know there was an Erie 4-6-2 in Korea in the 1950's, but when I was there the only Pacifics were two Yeongdeungpo built PaSi-5's. KNR was Japanese-built and featured left-hand running. A steam engine built to US specs would have the engineer on the wrong side.

Phil Mulligan

What position should the "Johnson Bar" be in when doing towing such as pulling the steamer out of the enginehouse to be fired up?

Centered is fine for walking speed short moves, but if it's no problem, moving the Johnson bar in the direction of motion is better.

As a child my ONLY memory of PRR steam is watching a 'funeral train' of PRR steam headed north toward Buffalo, NY, I'm guessing about 1959 or so. I remember seeing the rods moving, no smoke, no steam, and at least four or five locomotives moving very slowly up the river. My father made a point of it to have me see it, that's why it stuck.

So in the 'death of steam' era this must have been fairly commonplace, but damage issues were not primary. Ron Ziel's Twilight of Steam shows steam at the Northwestern Wire in Illinois being cut up, and it seems to me the piston rods were actually torch cut, certainly can't recommend that.

The other thing that sticks in my mind is how steam would have been delivered, they didn't flatcar it, they didn't power it, so the builders had to have some standard procedures in place including lubrication materials, separation of the piston rod at the crosshead, etc.