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 Post subject: Steam Locomotive Management
PostPosted: Tue Dec 20, 2022 4:18 pm 

Joined: Fri Apr 26, 2013 5:56 pm
Posts: 417
Location: Ontario, Canada.
Most of you fellows have probably seen this video, but it seems like it could be a good start to a thread on steam locomotive operation and management for those of us not completely in the know.
I hope those with some expertise will have a few things, or plenty, to say?
Thank you.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DwXRylQ3BVo


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 Post subject: Re: Steam Locomotive Management
PostPosted: Tue Dec 20, 2022 6:39 pm 

Joined: Sun Jan 08, 2017 12:39 am
Posts: 91
"Basic Steam Locomotive Maintenance" and any of the ICS series of books (in depth on any topic you could imagine) are great resources.


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 Post subject: Re: Steam Locomotive Management
PostPosted: Wed Dec 21, 2022 10:42 pm 

Joined: Fri Apr 26, 2013 5:56 pm
Posts: 417
Location: Ontario, Canada.
Neat little instructional video here. Also, a lovely locomotive!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QPfPznzL1OM


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 Post subject: Re: Steam Locomotive Management
PostPosted: Thu Dec 22, 2022 1:45 pm 

Joined: Fri Apr 26, 2013 5:56 pm
Posts: 417
Location: Ontario, Canada.
Some basic stuff here. If the moderators think this is redundant or too railfanny, I would not raise a stink if they move it.
I am certainly no expert, but was asked earlier this year about a locomotive's boiler that was suffering from plenty of leaking stays and tubes. I hope the folks involved watch this video and understand that taking your time warming them up, and cooling them down is critical. One may not want to spend the time, but there will be consequences!
Remembering being around CNR No. 6060 (oil fired) in the 1970s, in the Spadina Roundhouse in Toronto, I helped babysit her the night before an excursion. The regular shop staff pulled the loco out, turned her on the turntable, and moved her back so the stack was outside the door. A fire was lit, perhaps 14 to 18 hours before the trip, then, using shop air to atomize the oil, the fuel was slowly added to the fire and the heat brought up slowly. We caught hell from the night shift master mechanic one evening for making too much smoke! He said we were going to get CN in trouble with the city!
Years ago, helping out with traction engines, I made a comprehensive menu for the young people on how to lay up a boiler for winter storage. I added to it, that if at the end of the process, you weren't soaked, filthy, and miserable, then start over, because you had not done it correctly. It would be much the same for the preparation for a rail trip, I should think.
It would be nice to get some thoughts from the true experts and experienced folks on here. Thank you.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4nyt1lB5tP8


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 Post subject: Re: Steam Locomotive Management
PostPosted: Thu Dec 22, 2022 4:24 pm 

Joined: Sun Sep 05, 2004 9:48 am
Posts: 1567
Location: Byers, Colorado
OK Rick, I'm an experienced oil fireman. However, I'm hardly a "true expert", but I've never let that stop me from commenting on RyPN before. First off, taking 14 to 18 hours to warm up #6060 is about right, using shop air. If they were making black smoke, then they needed to fix their fire better. If you start an oil fire by FIRST adjusting the firing valve so that there is no more than a slow drip from the burner, AND THEN LIGHT OFF BY OPENING THE ATOMIZER, excess smoke should not be a problem. If you're taking a reasonable amount of time, you should not need to bump up the fuel as pressure builds, instead you will need to cut back the blower and atomizer a little at a time so your perfect idle fire won't be blown or sucked out. You don't add fuel until it's time to get serious.

I'll take a shot at the first two videos, but I know nothing about firing with coal:

The AT&SF movie shows a road crew taking charge of an engine after those unsung heroes of engine service, the hostlers, have got 'er ready. There is no mention of filling lubricators with valve oil, or filling the oil reservoirs on the air pumps with mineral oil. No mention of how to handle friction journals, either. That being said, the pairing of this particular movie with a call to fix up an AT&SF Hudson is perfect. I'll also say that in my experience, the AT&SF motive power people had it together, and their advice should be considered golden in general. I did not understand the bit about "the fireman checking the brickwork" using what looks like a paddle or spatula on a long reach rod --- maybe there was sand piled up on the firepan, or possibly the charred, crystalized remains of a piece of waste, I dunno. I never used a tool like that myself.

The SP #3472 video was made by a dear friend of mine, Neil Vodden, who helped many a young generation wannabe steam hogger get their footing. He was indeed a "true expert", and I recommend that his advice be followed to the letter. Especially excellent is his advice about braking a passenger train from speed to a gentle stop. It was a true privilege to have learned from him, and we are very fortunate that he made this video for those who never met him.

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who wants to fix up an old locomotive.

Sammy King


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 Post subject: Re: Steam Locomotive Management
PostPosted: Thu Dec 22, 2022 6:12 pm 

Joined: Fri Apr 26, 2013 5:56 pm
Posts: 417
Location: Ontario, Canada.
Sammy,
Thank you for the response. Perhaps some young people can learn from fellows like you with the hands on experience. Maybe this thread will have some value.
As for the 6060 "incident" mentioned above, it was a case of a couple of rookies spending more time flapping their lips and not watching the important things! Luckily, the master mechanic calmed down and laughed on his way out of the cab. The next morning, 6060 was on the mainline running at 80-plus mph, so all was well.


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 Post subject: Re: Steam Locomotive Management
PostPosted: Thu Dec 22, 2022 9:15 pm 

Joined: Thu May 24, 2012 1:37 pm
Posts: 2250
Sammy, was that a mirror on the end of that paddle?

It was amusing to see the 'posed' engineman lubricating the outside of the combination lever. Stage fright, perhaps?

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 Post subject: Re: Steam Locomotive Management
PostPosted: Thu Dec 22, 2022 9:46 pm 

Joined: Tue Aug 22, 2017 11:27 am
Posts: 132
I worked on farm equipment and was an OTR driver for a larger farmer when I was 18-20. We had a saying about putting the equipment away after planting and then harvest seasons. If you didn't come out of the shops looking like a mud monster especially when power washing the equipment then you didn't get it cleaned properly. We literally pulled out everything possible to spray it clean opened every hatch chute cover and door to get the dust and residue out especially in the combines. When it came to the trucks and trailers after harvest it was if the equipment didn't lose 500 pounds of mud and dirt we missed something someplace.


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 Post subject: Re: Steam Locomotive Management
PostPosted: Thu Dec 22, 2022 9:47 pm 

Joined: Sun Sep 05, 2004 9:48 am
Posts: 1567
Location: Byers, Colorado
I don't think so, Robert. In the beginning of the program, the engineer inspects the crown sheet by opening the firedoor and looking inside, up at the crown sheet directly. (OF COURSE I always do this with an idle fire.) When it's the fireman's turn, he jams that sucker in there and it looks like he's hoein' 'taters. Pretty sure it's not a mirror...

As an aside, at Texas State RR, we would fire up the day before an engine was needed, taking at least six hours from a cold start, making no more than a pound a minute. Shut down was right at quiting time, with the pops sizzling and the water glass full to the top. We would cover the stack and shut the dampers to conserve heat. Next morning we would have half a glass of water and 50 to 60 psi when we started getting her ready to work, which usually took two or tree hours more.

At the other end of the spectrum, the UP usually takes three or four days to heat up the #4014. Somewhere in between would be the #6060.

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I am just an old man...
who wants to fix up an old locomotive.

Sammy King


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 Post subject: Re: Steam Locomotive Management
PostPosted: Wed Dec 28, 2022 5:48 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 3:37 pm
Posts: 1277
Location: Pacific, MO
There is never a reason to rush firing up an engine.
Firing up 1522 was a long process. Big air compressor, overhead tank of diesel piped to a tee before the firing valve. Takes a good while to get off the peg but that's OK.
As she is warmed up and starting to build a little you can hear her moving in the furnace bearers.
We usually took a minimum of 8 hours. In all our years of running, we only replaced 3 staybolts. The bottle was tight.
I don't remember who, but one group told me the fire up, do their runs and shut down in one day. I can hear that boiler screaming.


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 Post subject: Re: Steam Locomotive Management
PostPosted: Wed Dec 28, 2022 8:12 pm 

Joined: Sun Sep 05, 2004 9:48 am
Posts: 1567
Location: Byers, Colorado
These days, the way we did it at Texas State 25 years ago would eat up your hot time too fast. If I had to do it over again today, I'd come in at 11pm, get her ready, and light off right at midnight to make a 10am call time. For a bigger engine, you might just have to bite it and fire up the day before. In the two years I worked for TSRR full time, we never had any issues with leaking staybolts or tubes.

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I am just an old man...
who wants to fix up an old locomotive.

Sammy King


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 Post subject: Re: Steam Locomotive Management
PostPosted: Sat Jan 07, 2023 10:47 pm 

Joined: Fri Apr 26, 2013 5:56 pm
Posts: 417
Location: Ontario, Canada.
Nice little piece of film. An experienced crew running a fine locomotive on a challenging bit of track:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KEc2ikegvv4


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 Post subject: Re: Steam Locomotive Management
PostPosted: Sun Jan 15, 2023 5:16 pm 

Joined: Mon Oct 01, 2018 3:51 pm
Posts: 442
Location: Ipswich, Mass., Phoenix, AZ
Great Western wrote:
Neat little instructional video here. Also, a lovely locomotive!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QPfPznzL1OM


SP 2472 probably while it was being kept at the Hunter's Point shipyard is south San Francisco. Fabulous locomotive. I saw it there, even the frame was polished!!


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 Post subject: Re: Steam Locomotive Management
PostPosted: Sun Jan 15, 2023 11:23 pm 

Joined: Wed Sep 25, 2013 12:36 am
Posts: 601
Location: Anchorage, Alaska
Quote:
I'd come in at 11pm, get her ready, and light off right at midnight to make a 10am call time.

I think it's been mentioned before, but wouldn't preheating the water in the boiler from an external source before midnight help to save on flue time?


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 Post subject: Re: Steam Locomotive Management
PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2023 8:13 am 

Joined: Wed Jan 16, 2019 8:47 pm
Posts: 216
Yes, preheating the boiler is good for slow fireups, and for saving days in some situations. In a similar situation, you could absolutely light off before midnight and so long as you don't gain any steam pressure by midnight, you won't use an extra service day. It can take at least two hours, give or take on size, to go from dead cold light off to gaining that first lb of steam. Come in, light off at 10pm, you won't meet a service day until after 12am- so long as there is NOT steam pressure until AFTER 12am.

The definition of a service day is steam pressure in the boiler and a fire in the firebox. If both those conditions do not exist simultaneously- no recorded service day.


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