How many who read the interchange use Imron paint for their equipment? I am investigating using Imron on our engine next summer and would like some advice on its use. I understand that it is pretty toxic stuff and we will use the proper precautions, my questions are more aimed toward application and use of the product.

I have gone to the Dupont website and have some info. which I'll be reading over tonight on the train. it looks pretty basic though.

We would be applying the coating outdoors using either standard or HVLP spray equipment using a 5 gal. pressure pot fo the material. Not exactly a controlled environment but we do get some good 80 degree low humidity days in the summer.

Basically I am looking for general observations and advice regarding using Imron for railway applications. How well does it hold up? How easy/hard is it to work with? Or is there another coating system that provide better results?

Thanks


jrowlands@neo.rr.com

> How many who read the interchange use Imron
> paint for their equipment? I am
> investigating using Imron on our engine next
> summer and would like some advice on its
> use. I understand that it is pretty toxic
> stuff and we will use the proper
> precautions, my questions are more aimed
> toward application and use of the product.

> I have gone to the Dupont website and have
> some info. which I'll be reading over
> tonight on the train. it looks pretty basic
> though.

> We would be applying the coating outdoors
> using either standard or HVLP spray
> equipment using a 5 gal. pressure pot fo the
> material. Not exactly a controlled
> environment but we do get some good 80
> degree low humidity days in the summer.

> Basically I am looking for general
> observations and advice regarding using
> Imron for railway applications. How well
> does it hold up? How easy/hard is it to work
> with? Or is there another coating system
> that provide better results?

Imron was used on #19 when she was painted after rebuild in Portland in '96. It has held up real well. The only exposed areas that are showing any sign of rust are places we scratched or scraped by accident. It is still glossy, although it could be better in my opinion if we had good wash facilities. Even so, infrequent washings and she still looks pretty good after 6 years.

Look at our web site. There may still be some fall/2001 photos showing #19. No close-ups however.

Taylor or Ron can probably post some good close-ups showing how she currently looks.

dan

http://www.svry.com
svry@pacifier.com

Doyle has used Imron on almost everything he has painted including the 4449, it's cars, the GN F unit, and SV 19. The paint holds up very well in the wet weather conditions we have here in the NW. Some of the Daylight painted cars were last shot for the 84 World Fair trip, and have had only roofs and trucks resprayed to be "freshened up". We are looking at scuffing and clearcoating a sleeper that was last painted in 84. Imron has a clearcoat that nothing will stick to, such as graffiti. From what I understand, you have to fully remove this coat when/if you ever want to repaint the piece of equipment!

Best of luck!

Smokebox

"orhf dot org"

I used Imron on ex-NYC Pullman Sleeper "Cascade Lane" about 3 years ago, and so far it has held up great. However it is extremely wicked stuff. I had to paint it outside with a "space suit" on. Keep it off your hands as much as possible. I developed a severe rash that took me months to get rid of. Click on the link below for a photograph of the semi-finished Pullman.

"Cascade Lane"

For a number of years I have participated in painting projects at the Monticello Railway Museum in Illinois. The Museum's standard paint system for locomotives and passenger cars is two coats of DuPont 681FD primer with an Imron 333M topcoat (I believe DuPont recently renumbered the Imron paints - those are the "old" numbers). We have painted three locomotives, four Illinois Central passenger cars, three Pullman Green cars and two Pullman two-tone grey cars with this system, if memory serves. Color and shine retention have been excellent, even for cars left out-of-doors year-round.

Regarding safety, the person handling the spray gun uses a supplied-air mask, others on the crew use AOSafety professional respirators with R53HE-P100 cartridges or equivalent (purple/yellow coding). All crew members wear tyvek suits and gloves to avoid skin contact (and to keep clothes clean). The biggest health risk with Imron is allergic reaction to isocyanates in the paint, which tends to get worse over time. Fortunately, most railway museum painting work does not involve the "prolonged and repeated exposure" found in industrial paint shops.

We use a compressed-air sprayer with a two-gallon paint pot. Ambient temperatures have ranged from 50 to 95 degrees with humidities to match. In general the temperature does not seem to affect the result, though accelerants/retardants are used to offset extreme temperatures. There is an occasional problem with paint setting up in the sprayer during lunch breaks in very hot weather.

We currently paint semi-indoors (large building with all doors open, not a spray booth), mainly to keep dust and insects from getting into the fresh paint. Also handy if it starts raining. Before that we painted outside.

As usual, surface preparation is key to getting a good paint job. This includes washing, sanding (not necessarily in that order) and finally "dusting off" the car with tack rags. The exact order of things (and the number of primer coats) depends on the existing finish on the car and the need for sandblasting, welding, body filling, etc.

Other than that, we have not had any serious problems with the Imron system. It did take the painters a while to figure out how to apply the paint in the correct wet film thickness to avoid runs and drips on the one hand and insufficient paint on the other. You might want to try painting a few practice surfaces first to get the spray gun settings and speed of gun movement right. As I recall, it's also a good idea to remove masking tape before the Imron on top of it has completely cured, otherwise parts of the hardened paint film may not separate at the mask line and be pulled off with the tape.

Monticello has been using the Imron system since at least 1996 with the hope of getting a 10-year life out of the paint jobs. So far, the 1996 paint jobs look like they'll have no problem reaching the 10-year mark.

pnichol6@prodigy.net

Having painted a number of cars and locomotives over the last 30+years with everything from Dulux and Duco to Centari, Imron, and Desothane (the same paint - brand and maufacturer - not DuPont - used on the space shuttle and Air Force 1, and a much higher quality isocyanitic urethane than imron), all I can say is don't use imron if you can find a good acrylic enamel like Centari ("yellow can"), with hardener. I would even try a color/clear coat system like the one made by PPG, which I've used only on automotive applciations so far, before using imron.

I've had several Centari paint jobs out last imron. The other thing is that since the imron film is so thin, it doesn't hide what's underneath very well.

Imron is also tricky to use, and the isocyanate part is "cyanide" bound up chemically with something else. Whenever you start painting a car or locomotive, *always* install a brand new set of charcoal filters on your respirator, particularly if someone else might have used it for another job. Looking at that NYC sleeper, you would want to install a new set when you painted the light gray and another for the dark gray.

The sign of cyanide poisoning is a headache. If you get one, DON'T lie down to take a nap but walk around and keep active until it goes away. AND get medical attention.

>Here in Fort Collins we used Imron paint on our Birney street car #21. It still looks just as good today as the day we put it on almost 19 years ago.
Roger Mitchell
Master Mechanic
Fort Collins Municipal Railway

n0mcr@netzero.net

> How many who read the interchange use Imron
> paint for their equipment? I am
> investigating using Imron on our engine next
> summer and would like some advice on its
> use. I understand that it is pretty toxic
> stuff and we will use the proper
> precautions, my questions are more aimed
> toward application and use of the product.

> I have gone to the Dupont website and have
> some info. which I'll be reading over
> tonight on the train. it looks pretty basic
> though.

> We would be applying the coating outdoors
> using either standard or HVLP spray
> equipment using a 5 gal. pressure pot fo the
> material. Not exactly a controlled
> environment but we do get some good 80
> degree low humidity days in the summer.

> Basically I am looking for general
> observations and advice regarding using
> Imron for railway applications. How well
> does it hold up? How easy/hard is it to work
> with? Or is there another coating system
> that provide better results?

> Thanks
O.E.R.M. has used Imron in years past, and it does hold-up great. It is hard to find here in Calif. and as others have pointed out, not great for your health. We have changed over to "Northstar" this is much safer and less costly. around $100.00 per Gal. Dave W.

davewolven@msn.com

In response to Dave, we at the HVRR purchase IMron 333 for under $100.00 per gallon, would be more than happy to share info on where to purchase.

The only comment I have to add to the discussion is this: The question asked in short about applying the paint, my only concern with the question was the comment in the question that suggested mixing 5 gallons at a time!

One poster talked in depth about the paint, all of which I agree to, however, I still buy Imron as Dupont Imron 333 (old number or new....who knows) I do know this. The paint is supplied in two parts

3/4 of a gallon is the raw color (base) one quarter of the gallon is catalist (spelling-sorry if it is wrong). The catalist is an active ingrediant that speeds the drying process and hardening process of the paint-a built in oven if you will. It is a Xylene based chemical that in some states (California) is illegal to use-period!

That catalist-or hardener if you will, is fast acting. We paint inside and out and I share in the feelings so far which is that 50-80 degrees with low humidity is good. Notwithstanding the paint begins to harden very fast. I suggest no more than 2 gallons mixed at a time.

When we paint, we have two people painting or working together. One applies the paint, the other mixes the next gallon. All gallons are well mixed and fresh at application.

Second, we have tried hand brushing and rolling Imron 333 which dupont claims you can do. True you can, however, you will notice what painters call "orange peel" that is that the paint will show more of a texture rather than a mirror finish. On trucks and such this may be okay, on a brand new boiler jacket it looks like ........well....orange peels!

Feel free to call, more than happy to help any time.

John E. Rimmasch
Heber Valley Railroad
(435)-654-5601 EXT 105

> O.E.R.M. has used Imron in years past, and
> it does hold-up great. It is hard to find
> here in Calif. and as others have pointed
> out, not great for your health. We have
> changed over to "Northstar" this
> is much safer and less costly. around
> $100.00 per Gal. Dave W.


jrimmasch@yahoo.com

> How many who read the interchange use Imron
> paint for their equipment? I am
> investigating using Imron on our engine next
> summer and would like some advice on its
> use. I understand that it is pretty toxic
> stuff and we will use the proper
> precautions, my questions are more aimed
> toward application and use of the product.

> I have gone to the Dupont website and have
> some info. which I'll be reading over
> tonight on the train. it looks pretty basic
> though.

> We would be applying the coating outdoors
> using either standard or HVLP spray
> equipment using a 5 gal. pressure pot fo the
> material. Not exactly a controlled
> environment but we do get some good 80
> degree low humidity days in the summer.

> Basically I am looking for general
> observations and advice regarding using
> Imron for railway applications. How well
> does it hold up? How easy/hard is it to work
> with? Or is there another coating system
> that provide better results?

> Thanks

I don't have any painting experience. I am a chemist who learned about isocyanates when a friend got occupational asthma from isocyanate paint.

I learned that isocyanate paint is the number one cause of occupational asthma in this country, that the asthma can be very severe, and that charcoal filters do not absorb isocyanates.

A hood with its own air supply and a complete body suit is required to keep the isocyanates out of your lungs and off your skin. Some individuals with partial safety protection may be able to use these products a few times with no ill effect, but others will suffer very severe and long lasting effects. I think that untrained and unprotected users are playing Russian Roulette with a paint gun.

John Omnaas

jomnaas@umich.edu