I have an inquiry about a particular car that perhaps someone can shed some light on.... The car is located in New Haven KY and currently is lettered for the Nashville Chattanooga and St. Louis Railroad. and named "Sea Breeze " The car has number 714 located on the side sheets... however it would appear after taking a closer look at the car, the car was numbered 373 on both the rear door and this same number is slightly visible on the exterior.

Perhaps someone can answer a few questions... First off, what is the actual history of this car ?... Was it in theory part of the NC&ST L RR business car fleet, or was it at one time, in service for the general public ( if so .. what was the original configuration ) . Inside the car you can see the remains of perhaps a section, and some scattered seat backs etc, however today it is mostly a gutted rotted shell. In addition, was this car ever owned by the L&N ?. The 373 number is in theory around the sequence of the L&N business car numbers and certainly the 373 style / font on the back door looks identical to the L&N style of lettering. Finally, when was the car sold off by the NC & STL RR and where did it go after leaving railroad service. It certainly has been neglected for a long period of time. Where did the car go after its railroad service.

Perhaps someone can offer some information on this unique car

Thank you


Dean Levin

a few more photographs

Dean,

The 714 is the car's NC&StL number. The Sea Breeze was one of two such cars on the NC&StL, I cannot remember what the other car's name was, but it was numbered 715. I believe they were built as coach/parlor obs cars for the road's daytime Nashville to Chattanooga services. I have seen one photo of the car's interior when in NC&StL service, and I believe it had walkover seats, and a small lounge area at the rear. I believe it's an AC&F product.

The car wasn't sold by the NC&StL. The L&N had owned the NC&StL since the 1870s and merged with the railroad in 1957. The L&N ownership of the NC&STL is the reason that line's post war passenger scheme matched the L&N's the gray roof and blue car sides.

The car at some point became L&N 373, an instruction car, and was used as a classroom-type car with folding chairs providing the seating. In original or later configuaration, it may have had a small buffet.

It came to KRM in the 1960s, IIRC, originally located at the museum's River Road site in Louisville, and then making two more moves as KRM moved, eventually to New Haven, KY. I was told that for years, at KRM it was used as the "meeting car" for the membership, as KRM didn't have any structures until the museum moved to New Haven in 1990-1991.

The car is certainly very neglected and rotten, a case of too much stuff and not enough resources, a sad commonality with many museums.

David

thanks for the great response.... After reading your brief history I was able to find out that the other car you mention was the "Autumn Air"... and from photographs it has a similar appearance... The "Autumn Air" appears to still exist, now named the Duane P Hoffman on the Black River and Northern and was in Black River Falls Wisconsin....

Interesting platform details unlike any I have seen... with some flat railing stock and capped corner posts ( as can be seen in the black and white photographs ) ... the remains of these details can be seen in the color photograph of the Sea Breeze....

I wonder if the "Autumn Air" also became an instruction car, or was it sold off and remained in some service.

thanks again for the information


Dean

Dean,

Is the Black River & Northern the static display that includes the former W&OV 4-6-0? If so, that solves the mystery of the former "L&N Business Car" the owner was reputed to have.

What the 715's service life was, I do not know. I think the 714/373 was the only one to become an instruction car. The platform details make photos of the cars easy to spot in photos. This does make me wonder what happened to the other car, and how it ended up in Wisconsin.

I became involved with KRM in 1993, and left in 2004 when I moved to STL, so I do not personally know much about the car's early history at KRM, or than it was always in the spot where you photographed it. I have seen photos of the car when it arrived at KRM, and it had L&N lettering, the L&N number (373) and the upper sash blanked out.

Other than the addition of the A/C duct on one side of the car, I always thought the car had a nice "early steel heavyweight" look to it. It is a shame the car is in the condition it is in. For a long time the windows were boarded up and the car was relatively secure, but vandalism from local miscreants has been an ongoing problem at KRM ever since the museum arrived in town. At one point, I thought the car was salvable, but I wonder if it still can today, given your photos.

If you visited KRM then I assume you also saw their L&N business car, in much better shape, number 373 the Kentucky.

Photo of Autum Air/Hoffman here:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/23711298@N07/4151422689/

Wesley

What a spectacular car! Are there any plans for it?

I have been informed that NC&STL open platform car "Sea Breeze" has been consigned to a scrapper for disposal. There is a disagreement amongst the members of the Board of Directors of KRM whether such a move can be made without the membership consent, so a mailer with a ballot is being sent to the members in the next few days to ask for approval for the scrapping of this car, and other "protected" equipment to raise cash for KRM.

If you or your organization is interested in this car, I would put together a proposal and immediately contact KRM. The ballots are due back to KRM by the 27th, so there isn't much time.

Sad.

David,

Didn't they suspend their by-laws recently? I guess we know why now. I had also heard that it was a rebuilder that had bought the locomotives. Apparently MRS-1s and 45 tonners are in high demand for industrial use. Sad indeed.

ETA

ETA,

I believe they did suspend the bylaws, so the BOD could do whatever possible to raise cash for the museum. I think it was the S1 and the 45 toners that went to the rebuilder, the MRS1 is to be cut up along with the FM switcher.

David

Thats a shame that they would cut "Seabreeze" up when several groups have been interested in the car and a few individuals have even tried to buy the car from KRM. I hope someone steps up and saves her because it's obvious that KRM doesn't have any interest in preserving history...

IMHO

Stuart

Stuart,

It has been stated by those in charge at KRM that they will do whatever possible to keep the museum open, the salaries of the paid staff paid, and the CF7 pulling commuter coaches train running, even if it means selling or scrapping core items from the collection, such as 2716, Sea Breaze, etc.

I'm afraid it's going to get far worse before it gets any better. While one could argue that this is just an attempt to keep the museum running, it is also an attempt to save the rear ends of the same group that has run the museum for many years, and run it into the ground.

Here is a photo of Sea Breeze at the KRM back in 1975.

Just out of curiousity, can anyone tell me the best on-line source of info on what is going on at the Kentucky Railway Museum? Obviously they are not going to air dirty laundry on their website or their Facebook page. Nor does the KRM newletter provide much info about long range plans (lots of Thomas pix, little else). I am asking out of a spirit of wanting to help, albeit in a very limited manner (I am a teacher with 2 children).

Dave Withers, Louisville

This 1975 photograph should rightly 'haunt' KRM .
To go from a useable/restored/presentable beauty of a car like this to now is disgraceful.

SHAME ON YOU KRM

Mike Pannell

I've never had the chance to visit KRM and know nothing about the place, but not letting ignorance deter me, decided to take a look at the last ten years of their income tax returns available on line.

They certainly don't carry much cash as a rule. At the end of 2010 their total cash was about $25,000, which would only cover about a month of their payroll expense of $222,000 per year. Maybe they have some form of revolving credit, since the value of secured debt seems to change each year. At the start of year 2000. the debt was $141,000. By the end of 2010 that number had grown to $653,000. This number is about 2/3 of the book value of the organization.

Comparing the revenues with expenses for each year between 2000 and 2010, there were two bad years out of ten, where expenses were much greater than revenue. These years were 2006 and 2008, for which the combined deficit was $600,000. Those two years alone apparently led to the substantial increase in debt. Does anyone remember if a major flood or other unusual event happened in those years?

Their 2010 return indicates KRM had a fairly good year, so there is no indication of the reason for a sudden interest in raising as much cash as possible. Maybe the lender has called in the loan? Maybe they just have decided it is time to stop the slow bleeding and retire the debt? Or maybe it is some event we all no nothing about.

But under the circumstances, I think I will try to schedule my visit earlier than later