When the original discussions were held, which as I recall was in 2015, the reply was that the locomotive would be permitted to operate just like any other type of test equipment, subject to the conditions to which any equipment that runs there is subject. That attitude had not changed by September 2022, and I doubt it has changed now, although I'd listen if someone had a direct quote from administration at Pueblo that they would not let 5550 run. I doubt anyone can produce that, far less substantiate it.

Naturally (since some of you don't understand this point yet) a great deal of modeling and simulation is being conducted to ensure that the design is capable of high speed safely. The point of the instrumented wheelsets is to determine if any dangerous forces are building up in any plane that might risk derailment. Bonding and insurance (expensive though that might be, but with clear evidence for the underwriters of due care in design and testing) would cover any damage to Federal property.

Someone has to advise me why there are loons posting here who think a locomotive substantially being built in Ohio needs to run through Penn Station to get to Pueblo.

The discussion involving the NEC dates back to the early days of the T1 Trust project, where one potential 'revenue source' that was discussed would be to operate some Amtrak service with the locomotive (similar to the 'weekend service' several decades ago in Australia). That was dubious then, and was ridiculous even to contemplate with Amtrak's policies up until recently (and, I would presume, into the future). It might be possible to contract to run on some portion of Amtrak's ROW, but I wouldn't make any plans whatsoever contingent on that. For what I at least would consider self-evident reasons.

So basically what you’re saying is, if this does happen in Pueblo. It will not be open to the public?

Rest assured that if an attempt at a world steam locomotion speed record is attempted on either publicly-accessible or private property, there will be the proverbial fecal-matter-ton of documentation being done, from "exclusive video access" (at a stiff price, no doubt) to radar to GPS tracking to laser timing to whatever third-party documentation Guinness Superlatives, Ltd. demands for proof.

Because that's "all that matters," isn't it?

To be a little more direct: It’s a federal facility which is not open to the public. I’m pretty sure that if you went there without an official invitation you’ll find yourself having a friendly chat with a security officer.

We're so far from the possibility of this happening I'll be happy if I'm still alive and not too senile to understand and process it.

It's real simple. 1. Build it, 2. Vigorous break-in testing. 3. Return the World Steam Speed Cup to the USA.

Piece of cake !! Ross Rowland

Foam has little if anything to do with it.

The locomotive testing there would be just that, testing at high speed. The critical speeds or other problems will have been tested on the roller rig, and the instrumented wheelsets provide any necessary 'warning' information regarding the running gear. (Now you might say this is the same 'excuse' testing as with Mallard in 1938, but it is systematic and not just an excuse to reach high speed and probe out catastrophic failure points...)

Indeed, if it turns out that high-speed slipping is intractable, or there are critical speeds in the design as built, or there are other problems with the locomotive... there won't be any faster running than is safe (Ross or no Ross! ;-} )

If you're saying that careful and unexceptional documentation is the only thing that would satisfy British railfans... they already have their excuse ready: 'it's no longer the age of steam' so it doesn't matter. (Conveniently overlooking the British Steam Speed Challenge, but of course when the shoe is on the other foot it doesn't matter to them).

Incidentally, as Pueblo is a loop there's unlikely to be FIA-style insistence on 'turning' the locomotive for a reverse run for timing purposes, but as noted that concern is far enough in the future to be unnecessary to take up and solve now.

I'd be reasonably certain there will be drone coverage streamed to the Internet that will give everyone interested an 'adequate' view. There's no objective reason to straggle out to trackside, have to arrange (and listen to) helicopters over a Federal facility... crowds of shutterbugs ignoring both access and safety to get their shots.

Ah. Silly me. Forgot the HTML.

<SARCASM>"Because that's 'all that matters,' isn't it?" </SARCASM>

Not sarcasm.

A dime a dozen are the British fans who argue that Mallard's record is 126.1mph, or that no American high-speed records are valid because of the lack of dynamometric testing -- or formal documentation, very often with precisely the sort of 'all that matters' that ADMIV mentioned.

The argument of more than a few has now shifted to 'it doesn't matter because Mallard will always have the REAL record' now that it is becoming clear that 5550 will be completed and tested. I've actually seen a couple who call for the locomotive not to be finished because it wouldn't be right... somehow.

All that sort of thing is the reason I commented.

It's always interesting to read what "outsiders," people who are not normally rail enthusiasts (at least as far as we would know) have to say about things like this:

https://www.thedrive.com/news/steam-tra ... 1i8-UTEK7s

The whole thing seems a bit better than most in that it looks like the author is more familiar with steam and rail operations than the majority of commentators you see in such other publications.

The most intriguing part of this refers to the late Bill Withuhn:



The next sentence says this can't be proven from what records we have available, but the line above also has a link to something from Withuhn.

https://pairlist6.pair.net/pipermail/nw ... 05035.html

This is the section in question:



This author goes on to say we still can't prove anything, yet I don't think Mr. Withuhn would say anything like this without basing it on something.

Of course, the only way to really know will be to complete the engine and actually run the tests.

The thing about mile posts (at least in the modern era) is that unless it's listed in the employee timetable as being a measured mile for checking the speed/distance recorder's accuracy on a lead unit, they can be short or long by hundreds of feet. Really, the only way to ever know for sure is to set out to do a run in a facility like Pueblo, that is measured six ways to Sunday and will leave no doubt.

From my experience on the ex PRR and New Haven's Northeast Corridor, the only places mile markers were off by more than a few feet was where the right of way had been moved -usually for curve relocations or cut offs, or the changes in the Philadelphia Terminal area related to 30th Street Station replacing Broad Street Station. The normal minor discrepancies in a 5,280 mile wouldn't even be noticeable as a rounding error.

To be fair, while I believe the Franklin Valve folk's notes of milepost timings, it does not rise to the level of proof needed to claim a world speed record. OTOH Those notes do make me confident that 5550 will bring the trophy home.

And - - - as a retired Maintenance of Way employee, it makes me proud that the Track section workers kept the railroad smooth and strong enough for 140 MPH running of a ~ 472 ton locomotive and tender, plus the train. That is FRA Class 8 track in the modern world.

Brian

Keep a number of things in mind as you ponder the wisdom ( or lack thereof) of challenging the world steam locomotive speed record being a part of the whole PRR T-1
project.

Firstly, it directly answers the old and very true adage of " dream no small dreams as they fail to stir men's souls ".........and

Secondly, absent the possibility of returning the steam locomotive speed crown to the USA the whole PRR T-1 effort loses its appeal to the much wider general audience not tuned into the relatively tiny universe of mainline steam happenings.

From all the reliable information available in the public domain there is ample evidence to believe that the PRR T-1's regularly achieved speeds far in excess of 100 mph in regular service.

On our trip west with the Golden Spike Centennial Limited in 1969 I had a pilot engineer who was a fireman on the PRR in the 1940's-50's and frequently fired a 5500 class locomotive in that service. He told me that on a good number of trips when they were running late that they would "regularly" run 30 minute or quicker miles with trains of 9-12 cars and think nothing of it.

My gut tells me this new born thoroughbred will set a new steam locomotive speed record that will probably stand for eternity?? However never never say never as there are those who believe that N&W 611 with its state of the art cross counter balancing can achieve speeds in excess of 130 mph so maybe there will be more than one challenger??

Exciting possibilities !! Ross Rowland

Several segments of the former Pennsylvania Railroad that I am familiar with here in Pennsylvania included the distance in feet between mileposts, and those miles often were several hundred feet longer or shorter than an actual statute mile. It was actually somewhat rare to find two or three contiguous miles that were 5,280 feet.

As I recall when the 611 was initially rebuilt for its first excursion service it may have been either Trains or Railfan had an in depth article on the Class J design. Due its small drivers, in order to reach the maximum service speed they may have reduced the overbalance to a minimum to reduce the driver lift at high speed. To reduce the yawing effect, did I recall they stiffened the lead and trailing truck centering rockers to compensate? If so, it made me wonder how it negotiated the switches and curves at Strasburg…..unless it was lossened up over the years?

Keep in mind at 110mph, the 70” drivers on the 611 are spinning at 528rpm, if you have walked up to and really got a sense of how massive the rods are on the 611, the cross heads, etc. the thought of that RPM is terrifying!

The T1 will have less gross dynamic forces with lighter reciprocating motion with divided drive. However with 80” drivers at 130 mph, the revs will be around 545 RPM..

Food for thought.

Regards

Randy