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 Post subject: Re: CLIMAX A-313
PostPosted: Wed Dec 01, 2021 5:00 pm 

Joined: Sat Oct 17, 2015 5:55 pm
Posts: 2251
crij wrote:

Do you happen to have any photos of either this locomotive or a sister (same model or similar config) that you can post?

.

Here's one:


Attachments:
No.-313.jpg
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 Post subject: Re: CLIMAX A-313
PostPosted: Wed Dec 01, 2021 6:15 pm 

Joined: Wed Dec 02, 2015 10:38 am
Posts: 130
You can find a few at https://corryrails.com/ The webpage photo is of A-313's sister A-315. Check the history of A-313 for some additional photos. Now for some speculation on my part. The belt rail on A-315 is at the same height on all three side panels. On A-313 the first two panels the belt rail are lower than the rear panel. I think that Climax built the first two panels at the the standard height for Class A's - about 30 inches. When the carpenters tried to put a standard Climax window for its B's and C's in, it was too short to fit the space by 4 - 5 inches, and the rear panel belt rail on A-313 is raised by that amount. When they got to A-315, the carpenters adjusted the height of the belt rail to fit the window. Remember that 313 and 315 were built to help the crews survive Alaska with a full cab which the first Climax A which went Alaska the prior year did not have and was added in Alaska.

The photos that I have do not belong to me and were shared to assist my my efforts to recreate A-313, and I do not believe that I should share that which I do not own or have specific permission to post. Sorry.


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 Post subject: Re: CLIMAX A-313
PostPosted: Sat Dec 04, 2021 10:17 am 
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Joined: Sat Aug 28, 2004 1:15 pm
Posts: 1466
Location: Henderson Nevada
I noted that when talking about the bolts holding the roof you seemed concerned about Keith's calling out 1/2" bolts in 5/8" holes. I have found several contemporary sources who state (more or less a quote sources still packed as I reestablish my library)... Bolts are not pins... they are simply tension members holding wood in compression... and while it may seem to be "workman like" to have a tight fit, a loose fit is better, particularly when having to disassemble the structure for repairs.

This is particularly important when working with oak... oak with its tannins will attack steel/iron and the bolts will swell and become locked in the holes...

So, 5/8" holes for a 1/2" bolt makes sense...

Great work and great documentation... especially when publicly discussing questions like this...

Thanks

Randy

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 Post subject: Re: CLIMAX A-313
PostPosted: Sat Dec 04, 2021 4:34 pm 

Joined: Thu Oct 08, 2015 11:54 am
Posts: 1767
Location: New Franklin, OH
WESIII wrote:
Interesting detail from A-313 which illustrates how Climax secured/tied the roof arcs to the side framing. The Bolts were 1/2" or 5/8" and the Anchor is 7/8".

That’s very similar to the way you’d connect a continuous wooden handrail to a newel post except you’d countersink the hole and put a plug over it. A 1/2” bolt in a 5/8” hole is also a standard clearance. It gives you a teeny bit of wiggle room to line up the bolt to the bored and threaded round bar in your drawing.

In my mind looking at your drawing, I’d think you’d need either a wedge washer under the bolt head or bored to use a flat washer.

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 Post subject: Re: CLIMAX A-313
PostPosted: Mon Dec 06, 2021 2:19 pm 

Joined: Wed Dec 02, 2015 10:38 am
Posts: 130
At present my model has a bore hole which just touches the outside of the facia at the top. I am aware of the issue and "hope" that the answer turns up in the ironwork which was recovered from Keith Christenson. Nothing in the notes I have and no closeup photos.

Without additional info, I will suggest a tapered/wedge washer as the best solution as that does not compromise the wood should another answer later be revealed by an examination of SN 804 (although between 313 and 804 numerous changes can have occurred),


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 Post subject: Re: CLIMAX A-313
PostPosted: Tue Dec 07, 2021 4:17 pm 

Joined: Wed Dec 02, 2015 10:38 am
Posts: 130
A screenshot of the A-313's H25 Frame Bolster (Upside down). Note the shape of the holes in the casting to accept Pyramid Bolts. The CADD model is much cleaner than the original as the "pyramids" in the original were apparently chiseled not cast per our resident Climax expert Grady Smith. He also opined that the pyramid bolts may have been created by hammering the red hot heads of bolts in to create the pyramid heads in the 7/8" 11" Bolts to make them essentially even with the bottom of the bolster to clear the cast truck bolster.

Attachment:
Screen Shot H25  Fame Bolster.JPG
Screen Shot H25 Fame Bolster.JPG [ 83.95 KiB | Viewed 6519 times ]


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 Post subject: Re: CLIMAX A-313
PostPosted: Sat Jan 08, 2022 11:05 pm 

Joined: Wed Dec 02, 2015 10:38 am
Posts: 130
Attached are a 2D drawing of the Frame of A-313 which will be used to reconstruct A-313. "As-Built" may vary slightly and drawings prepared from the 3D CADD program will be modified as completed. Bolt heads which project above the End and Side Sills were mortised into the Sill Cap (not show) by hand chiseling a mortise or recess to accept the Bolt Head (per Dunn-Christenson Notes).

A link to a 3D pdf may be found at:

https://s3.amazonaws.com/SIMONTON/A-313+Revision+6.pdf

3D pdf requires Adobe Acrobat or Acrobat Reader to view 3D features. May be rotated, zoomed into, and parts hidden to observe the mortise and tenon construction. Best viewed in CADD Optimized Lighting and Solid Outline.

Attachment:
Climax A-313 Frame.JPG
Climax A-313 Frame.JPG [ 42.54 KiB | Viewed 6302 times ]


Last edited by WESIII on Thu Jan 20, 2022 12:16 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: CLIMAX A-313
PostPosted: Wed Jan 19, 2022 6:55 pm 

Joined: Fri Jan 29, 2010 9:26 am
Posts: 95
Location: Princeton, NJ
Hi,

I'd love to download the 3D file but it seems like the link is broken? Still thinking about a model or 2! As always super work on these!


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 Post subject: Re: CLIMAX A-313
PostPosted: Thu Jan 20, 2022 12:20 am 

Joined: Wed Dec 02, 2015 10:38 am
Posts: 130
Broken link repaired. AWS had changed the access from public for some reason. Check the link above or try this one:

https://s3.amazonaws.com/SIMONTON/A-313+Revision+6.pdf


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 Post subject: Re: CLIMAX A-313
PostPosted: Thu Jan 20, 2022 7:20 am 

Joined: Fri Jan 29, 2010 9:26 am
Posts: 95
Location: Princeton, NJ
Thanks got it! How similar do you think this frame is to those that were used on the vertical boiler engines?


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 Post subject: Re: CLIMAX A-313
PostPosted: Thu Jan 20, 2022 9:29 am 

Joined: Wed Dec 02, 2015 10:38 am
Posts: 130
My own thought is that the Frame Cross Member under the Smokebox Saddle would not exist and that the Stringers would be mortised into the Front Sill and extend to the same place as on A-313. The Boiler support frame would be essentially the same as on A-313. The deck on A-313 is composed of 1 3/8" boards of varying widths so without any significant weight on the deck in front of the Boiler that would have been sufficient.

The exhaust arrangement is not known by me but would start like on A-313 on the right side of the engine and go forward.

Once drawings of some of the significant parts are approved, I will make available (with CORRY RAILS permission) drawings of some of them. During my work on SN-1551, I found that when bolting metal to metal the holes were typically 1/16" larger than the bolt or stud used.

A Climax blueprint drawing of a Wood Truck Bolster of May 1904 (unnumbered) indicates that Climax used the same specification on bolts attaching metal to wood members with the holes in the wood also specified 1/16" larger than the bolts.

At present my drawing do not reflect that as measuring holes in wood left out on the Artic Tundra for 50 years is a best I can do operation. Very recently, I had to scan and blow up the bolster drawing to make be able to make out the called dimensions. After consultation with CORRY RAILS, I may need to make that change. Determining what original bolts we have and finding out how they were (where) used may require some detective work.

All it takes to drill a hole slightly larger than intended is a dulling bit and a long hole to drill and the drill will naturally expand the diameter of the hole.


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 Post subject: Re: CLIMAX A-313
PostPosted: Thu Aug 18, 2022 5:35 pm 

Joined: Wed Dec 02, 2015 10:38 am
Posts: 130
Some recent (today) screenshots of the CADD model of SN 313. I had intended to post the screenshots of the revised arrangement for the Roof Arch connectors in this thread but mistakenly posted them in a new thread which did not include the screenshot of the original thinking engendered by the arrangement of the 5/8" & 7/8" holes so I will repost them also in this thread.

As you can see details both large and small are yet to be worked out, but work is progressing. The two-cylinder engine has been re-assembled by the Corry group and is working on air and a floor stand is being constructed to determine the correct setup of the engine & gearbox.

Please note that everything here is subject to change as the work proceeds.

Attachment:
A-313 Right Elevation.JPG
A-313 Right Elevation.JPG [ 299.67 KiB | Viewed 4978 times ]


Attachment:
A-313 Left Elevation.JPG
A-313 Left Elevation.JPG [ 291.03 KiB | Viewed 4978 times ]


Attachment:
A-313 Front View.JPG
A-313 Front View.JPG [ 135.64 KiB | Viewed 4978 times ]


Attachment:
A-313 Rear View.JPG
A-313 Rear View.JPG [ 121.76 KiB | Viewed 4978 times ]


Attachment:
A-313 Bottom View.JPG
A-313 Bottom View.JPG [ 312.75 KiB | Viewed 4978 times ]


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 Post subject: Re: CLIMAX A-313
PostPosted: Thu Aug 18, 2022 8:26 pm 

Joined: Wed Dec 02, 2015 10:38 am
Posts: 130
Further investigation of the way Climax Mfg. Co. secured the roof arches has revealed that they used a simple 1/2" Square Nut dropped into a 7/8" drilled hole to secure the 1/2" bolts securing the Side Facia to the Roof Arches - Not a 7/8" rod drilled and tapped for a 1/2" bolt as I initially thought. Just goes to show two things. Just because something appears to be the way things were done a 120 years ago, one (me) maybe wrong. And the second is that Climax Mfg. Co. did things the simple, easiest and cheapest way.

For the way we initially thought it was done look in prior post on this thread.

See illustrations below:

Attachment:
Roof Bolt Section Detail.JPG
Roof Bolt Section Detail.JPG [ 68.77 KiB | Viewed 4930 times ]


Attachment:
Roof Bolt Overhead Detail.JPG
Roof Bolt Overhead Detail.JPG [ 39.45 KiB | Viewed 4930 times ]


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 Post subject: Gear Shift
PostPosted: Mon Aug 29, 2022 1:00 pm 

Joined: Wed Dec 02, 2015 10:38 am
Posts: 130
Interesting way the Climax Gear Box was set up. The Gear Handle was pivoted on the Slide and the plate at the bottom acted as a fulcrum with the arm of the slide projecting between the two engine shaft Gears.

Note that the Gear Handle and "Radius" are place holders used for illustration purposes and the handle lever and the notches in the radius are also not modeled even for illustration purposes.

Attachment:
HIGH Gear-1.JPG
HIGH Gear-1.JPG [ 74.49 KiB | Viewed 4740 times ]


Attachment:
Neutral Gear-1.JPG
Neutral Gear-1.JPG [ 84.55 KiB | Viewed 4740 times ]


Attachment:
Low Gear-1.JPG
Low Gear-1.JPG [ 154.2 KiB | Viewed 4740 times ]


Last edited by WESIII on Mon Aug 29, 2022 10:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: CLIMAX A-313
PostPosted: Mon Aug 29, 2022 9:16 pm 

Joined: Fri Jan 29, 2010 9:26 am
Posts: 95
Location: Princeton, NJ
Keep 'em coming! Thanks for posting!


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