That's fair. To anyone on here who knows a bit bout steam, what kind of damage might we expect the 3512 to have suffered from landing upside down on the silt at the kind of speed she fell at? I'm curious about it. In the documentary, they mentioned the possibility of mapping out what was underneath the silt to be able to look at it better, so hopefully that becomes a reality so we can get a better idea of what's left of the engine underneath the mud.

I also wonder why the engine ended up upside down when all the other equipment is sitting upright. I thought it would make more sense for the locomotive to be upright but i guess not.

I think it's rolled since the first images were taken.

I just finished watching the documentary. The tender, the wood caboose, and the snowplow all look relatively undamaged, but the only thing that I could really identify as part of a locomotive, upside-down or otherwise, was a dome cover laying on its own in the silt. It doesn't look like it let go without a fight either. I couldn't really tell what that piece of twisted metal was that they got the ROV's umbilical cord tangled around. I was expecting to see locomotive wheels pointing skyward but there was no sign of them in the footage they showed. From the size of the impact crater they described, it sounds like she must have hit bottom pretty hard.

They do show parts of the locomotive, but they are hard to identify unless you're an expert. It's hard to tell, but they show part of it that appears to be either the rear of the locomotive towards the cab, or the pilot, i can't tell but it's definitely part of the locomotive itself. It looks like it might be a running board with some brackets and piping visible. Maybe someone here can chime in. It's possible that more of the locomotive is visible, but they did not have time to film it. It is stated in the film that just as they were starting to get more detailed shots of the "machinery" but the camera feed died out. Hopefully another expedition someday can reveal more. I'd like to know what kind of damage is present and what kind of shape the locomotive would be in if it were to be viewed in full and inspected by a crew of experts. The twisted metal may be part of the cab, boiler jacket, or running board, if i had to guess.

Interesting and well done documentary. I'd only previously seen the 1995 expedition footage that was in black and white so it was fascinating to see everything in colour.

A couple of observations;

- There appears to be virtually no deterioration as compared with images taken on the 1995 expedition, only more accumulated silt.

- The steam dome cover is a new discovery. That it came off isn't surprising - its just a heavy gauge sheet metal cover held on by gravity.

- The images of the locomotive at 1:14:25 - 1:14-30 are very interesting. They are far more clear that what I saw on the 1995 expedition footage but they don't really shed any light on the condition of the locomotive - only raise more questions. What you are looking at is the underside of the fireman's side of the cab. The distinctive inward narrowing curve of the running board is prominently visible where it tapers into the walkway to access the air compressor. An airline is clearly visible bolted to the underside of the running board. I've matched the image to the period photo of the #3512 below. Of note is the pipe from the air compressor with the 90 degree bends and the bottom end of the compressor is just slightly visible.



- 1:14:02 is an interesting view - the large domed rivet heads on the cross member almost look like the the rear mudleg of the back end of the firebox. If so, that means the ashpan is completely gone - more on that in a moment... The base of the rear wall of fireman's side of the cab is visible.

- 1:14:43 looks like the tender drawbar pocket.

- 1:14:48 the bent piece of metal they get the ROV tether snagged on is VERY interesting, especially how its peeled off and facing forward.

What I find most interesting is what IS NOT visible. NO ashpan, NO brake rigging, NO frame and NO axles/wheels/rods.

I think it rolled nose first and sideways off the barge, turned upside down, hit the bottom nose first at a sharp angle and hit HARD (hence the big 60 meter crater). When it hit, I believe the steam chest shattered, the frame/running gear sheared off, slid forward and are burried in the silt. That would explain why the drivers are not visible, the ashpan is gone, the firebox mudleg is visible and the piece of metal that the ROV tether was snagged on is peeled off and twisted forward.

Another expedition would shed more light on the condition of the locomotive (no pun intended), but from what I'm seeing, the evidence suggests the locomotive is completely destroyed. Just my 2 cents, YMMV.

It would be interesting to compare the footage of the wreck to the #3512's closest surviving sister, the #3522 in Beinfate (Saskatchewan). Next time I'm out that way I'll take some comparison photos and update the thread.

73
RwC