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 Post subject: Katy 4-4-0 makeover at Museum of Transportation
PostPosted: Wed Nov 22, 2023 12:10 am 

Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2005 1:25 pm
Posts: 6412
The most pleasant surprise on my recent visit to MOT is that the museum has restored the front end looks of 4-4-0 # 311 to her "in service" appearance. The American (and train), had gone to the museum outside of St. Louis thinly disguised as an 1870 period engine with high mounted headlight and round number plate. In reality, the M-K-T Shops in Parsons, Kansas had rebuilt 4-4-0's numbers 306-312 in 1923-1925, with new boilers and various other improvements. These engines worked in passenger service on two and three car trains, with some of the engines remaining in service into the early 1950's. The 311 now has her steel pilot and centered headlight back in place. Nicely done MOT!


Les


Attachments:
Mo visit Late Nov `23 116.JPG
Mo visit Late Nov `23 116.JPG [ 250.72 KiB | Viewed 146403 times ]
Mo visit Late Nov `23 113.JPG
Mo visit Late Nov `23 113.JPG [ 255.53 KiB | Viewed 146403 times ]
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 Post subject: Re: Katy 4-4-0 makeover at Museum of Transportation
PostPosted: Wed Nov 22, 2023 9:25 am 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 3:37 pm
Posts: 1277
Location: Pacific, MO
That looks so much better!
The director at the MOT back in the '90s asked us (SLSTA) to do an evaluation on her to see if it was feasible to return to operational. Gary Bensman was in town and we gave her a good going over and did everything but an ultrasound. Her boiler was in beautiful shape except for about 3 rivets which could be replaced.
Running gear was OK for a running display engine. We were all enthused about doing it, but nobody could scrape up the $$.
I had drawn up plans for a new pilot to be laser cut where I worked. At the time, the MKT society were curiously not interested.
MOT had two small engines that would have been great to operate there, the 311 and a Union Electric 0-4-0T, which also got taken apart for evaluation and even ultrasounded the boiler by another Director.
The MOT missed a good chance. I think the UE engine may have been able to run on the trolley loop. It is small, very simple and a chance for a group with a little talent to prove their bones.


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 Post subject: Re: Katy 4-4-0 makeover at Museum of Transportation
PostPosted: Wed Nov 22, 2023 11:42 am 

Joined: Sun Sep 05, 2004 9:48 am
Posts: 1581
Location: Byers, Colorado
Interestingly enough, the machine shop I worked for in the mid 90s also tried to approach the MOT with an offer to make a proper pressed steel pilot for this engine at our expense, but we were also snubbed. She looks a lot better now, especially in view of the fact that there are no other examples of Katy steam in existence.

Back in the mid 80s I also interviewed an ancient MKT Conductor who told me of losing his footing and landing between the rails behind one of the 300s as she backed up slowly. The rear set of trucks backed over him without causing injury, and when he saw that flash pan getting closer and closer (which cleared the ground by only a few inches), he got EXTREMELY motivated and managed to haul himself out from under the tender. His only injuries were cuts and bruises !!! In those days the life expectancy of a Brakeman was TWO YEARS. If you hadn't been promoted within that time, it was advisable to go into another line of work. Somewhere I think I still have the cassette tape, but now have no machine on which to play it.

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who wants to fix up an old locomotive.

Sammy King


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 Post subject: Re: Katy 4-4-0 makeover at Museum of Transportation
PostPosted: Wed Nov 22, 2023 12:27 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 11:26 am
Posts: 4654
Location: Maine
Modernized Americans are fine looking locomotives!

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 Post subject: Re: Katy 4-4-0 makeover at Museum of Transportation
PostPosted: Wed Nov 22, 2023 12:50 pm 

Joined: Wed Jan 16, 2019 8:47 pm
Posts: 216
It would be amiss if I did not mention that the far majority of the money and manpower for the work done on 311 has come from individuals with the St. Louis NRHS and especially the Katy Railroad Historical Society.


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 Post subject: Re: Katy 4-4-0 makeover at Museum of Transportation
PostPosted: Wed Nov 22, 2023 1:26 pm 

Joined: Thu Mar 13, 2014 2:34 am
Posts: 538
Location: Granby, CT but formerly Port Jefferson, NY (LIRR MP 57.5)
What an elegant locomotive!

Looking at steamlocomotive.info, it's striking to me how many 4-4-0s there are at NMOT: MKT No. 311, DL&W camelback No. 952, the B&A 'Marmora', C&NW No. 274, and of course the B&P 'Daniel Nason' (which qualifies as the last surviving New Haven steam engine).

While part of me wishes three of those five were preserved somewhere closer to their old home territories in the Northeast and that they were all in prettier condition, the very fact that they exist and are under cover now should be applauded. The 4-4-0 was once almost omnipresent in American railroading, but its era had passed before the modern rail preservation movement began. How many other collections can boast *five 4-4-0s*? (Nevada State RR Museum excluded!)

-Philip Marshall


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 Post subject: Re: Katy 4-4-0 makeover at Museum of Transportation
PostPosted: Wed Nov 22, 2023 2:22 pm 

Joined: Sun Sep 05, 2004 9:48 am
Posts: 1581
Location: Byers, Colorado
Boilermaker wrote:
It would be amiss if I did not mention that the far majority of the money and manpower for the work done on 311 has come from individuals with the St. Louis NRHS and especially the Katy Railroad Historical Society.


At the time we offered to make the pilot for #311, I was a member of the KRHS, and I wasn't the only guy interested in this project.

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I am just an old man...
who wants to fix up an old locomotive.

Sammy King


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 Post subject: Re: Katy 4-4-0 makeover at Museum of Transportation
PostPosted: Thu Nov 23, 2023 10:00 am 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 3:37 pm
Posts: 1277
Location: Pacific, MO
When the 311 was donated, it was backdated with old headlight and other inappropriate knickknacks and the cars that came with it were "old timed". It is starting to look like it should now.
Also a prominent man in St. Charles would have loved to restore it to run on a small part of the old Katy line there.
Nothing ever came to fruition.
Same situation on the UE 1.


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 Post subject: Re: Katy 4-4-0 makeover at Museum of Transportation
PostPosted: Thu Nov 23, 2023 12:38 pm 

Joined: Sat Jul 27, 2019 10:53 pm
Posts: 26
Just curious, is there an interesting story behind both how this came to be the last MKT steamer, and how it ended up at the museum? When did it get to the museum, and where was it before the museum?


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 Post subject: Re: Katy 4-4-0 makeover at Museum of Transportation
PostPosted: Thu Nov 23, 2023 10:31 pm 

Joined: Wed Jan 16, 2019 8:47 pm
Posts: 216
New773 wrote:
Just curious, is there an interesting story behind both how this came to be the last MKT steamer, and how it ended up at the museum? When did it get to the museum, and where was it before the museum?


The Cliff notes version is that the Katy used the 311 and accompanying train as a promotional tool that toured their system to celebrate one of their anniversaries- which one I can't say from memory at the moment. Eventually, as their need for the train wound down, and so did steam in general on the railroad in 1953, NMOT requested the donation of the engine because of its use in the celebratory train. I believe at the time NMOT did not yet have a 4-4-0 type, which would also have been a factor in wanting it.

The 311 made one final trip around St. Louis, returning to the St. Louis Union Station before the planned trip to NMOT. Originally it was intended that it would run on its own power from there over the Missouri Pacific line to the museum, but the plug was pulled on that idea at the last minute. The fire was dropped at the station and the next day it was towed dead to its new home.

Keep in mind at that point in time NMOT was really the only museum of its kind actively trying to preserve a wide swath of railroad equipment and artifacts, so there weren't many in line for something like the 311 and it's train. By the time more museums sprung up wanting to preserve various locomotives many railroads had already stopped running steam and scrapped most of, if not the entire fleet. Wabash, Missouri Pacific, Katy, and more happened like so. Compared to just a few years later in the mid to late 50s, the idea of intentially saving more than just one engine to represent an entire railroad, unless that engine was special in its own right, wasn't a particularly common thought. Unfortunately, had there been more museums and resources in place to ask for locomotives off the dead lines in those years, we likely would have more today.

Back then NMOT was in the right place, at the right time, with the right industry connections to make things happen. They and the railroads negotiated more than one locomotive's preservation before it was actually retired. A shame they didn't have the space nor the money to do more- by all accounts the early museum founders really wanted to, and had to say 'no' more and more often as time went on.


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 Post subject: Re: Katy 4-4-0 makeover at Museum of Transportation
PostPosted: Wed Nov 29, 2023 12:10 pm 

Joined: Sun Jun 23, 2013 1:16 pm
Posts: 209
Just a little added info on the engine/train. Hopefully I got this all correct.

1945 was the Katy's 75th Anniversary ("Golden Jubilee", they called it.) of it's 1870 founding. They recreated a train of that era to tour the system to celebrate it.

After that ran it's course, the cars were stored at Parsons, the engine was returned to service on the Katy's Northwestern District out of Wichita Falls, Tx.

In 1947, St. Paul Kansas celebrated it's centennial. The engine was brought back from Texas and sent to the shops at Parsons, re-fitted by the forces there with accouterments to give it the appearance of a wood-burner of old, and with it's train was sent to St. Paul for display.

After that, it was again stripped of it's adornments, the train's cars were stored at Parsons, and the engine made it's way back to Texas, to continue life on the branch line in Texas.. .until it was retired and made it's way to the Museum.


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File comment: The "Mike Morfa" in Parsons Kansas 1945
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v....jpg [ 210.55 KiB | Viewed 144097 times ]
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 Post subject: Re: Katy 4-4-0 makeover at Museum of Transportation
PostPosted: Wed Nov 29, 2023 1:48 pm 

Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2005 1:25 pm
Posts: 6412
Bad Order -

Thanks for the photo and the information. Although hard to tell for sure from the photo, it looks like two of the cars behind 4-4-0 number 2 (backdated # 311) came to MoT when the American was donated. The car directly behind the tank with its 4 side windows, does not currently have a celestory roof, but that may have been an addition by the Parson Shops to backdate what was once a caboose into an "old-time" passenger car. That car has an interesting set of "pedestal trucks". Also at MoT is a side door caboose (sans cupola), which may have been the last car in the photo. The middle car in the photo looks like a standard coach and apparently did not make it to the museum.

Les


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 Post subject: Re: Katy 4-4-0 makeover at Museum of Transportation
PostPosted: Wed Nov 29, 2023 11:09 pm 

Joined: Sun Jun 23, 2013 1:16 pm
Posts: 209
Here's another view I found of the engine and it's consist. Enlarged, it has quite a lot of detail. It is the 1945 view. I see it's numbered 200 in this view, and is named the Katy Flyer. In other places, it was designated the Mike Morfa.
Some things I notice in this view: The bell doesn't seem to fit the cradle- too small. Also, you can see how the sheet metal men in the shops made the "diamond stack" and slid it over the engines straight stack. The headlight and it's support bracket not original, in my estimation....and, if I'm not mistaken, there is a headlight similar to that one setting on the floor of the railroad museum in Parsons Kansas.

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Here's a 1970's close up of one of the cars at the museum.

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 Post subject: Re: Katy 4-4-0 makeover at Museum of Transportation
PostPosted: Thu Nov 30, 2023 7:29 pm 

Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2005 1:25 pm
Posts: 6412
Bad Order -

Thanks for the two additional photos. In the color photo of the train, the box car behind the tender, the gondola car and the flat car, further back, were all also donated to MoT. This makes me think that perhaps this photo is of the train when it made its last trip around St. Louis as described in Boilermakers earlier comments. That would make the photo 1952. Also, MoT describes the donation of that equipment as part of the "Katy Flyer", which kind of goes along with the lettering on the 4-4-0. BTW, the number 200 comes from her original number which she carried when delivered to the Katy in 1890, long before her rebuilding. She was quickly renumbered as #280 in 1892 and then to number 311 in 1912.

Les


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 Post subject: Re: Katy 4-4-0 makeover at Museum of Transportation
PostPosted: Sat Dec 02, 2023 8:47 pm 

Joined: Fri Oct 23, 2020 10:59 pm
Posts: 3
Location: St. Louis, MO
We would like to thank everyone for the compliments on what we've accomplished thus far.
Our small 3 man group has been quietly working to return 311 back to her 1945 appearance.
It has been a painstaking process to find or fabricate original parts with historically correct components.
We owe many thanks to the staff and other volunteers at the NMOT for helping us accomplish this task.
The 311 was also awarded 2 grants from the NRHS which has been instrumental for putting large goals in reach for us, again many many thanks to the NRHS.
Besides money from our own pockets, we have had other individuals donate as well and it has been tremendously helpful.
There are many parts we have already acquired or found at the Museum, we are getting closer to installing them on the loco.
Our experience working with the NMOT has been great. Everyone has been especially helpful and encouraging.
If anyone here happens to have any photos or print information regarding 311 at any point in her existence we'd greatly appreciate a copy.
Part of this work is also including information to ad to 311's file at the Museums Library, so any info provided will stay preserved at the Museum with 311 for future generations.
She's been at the Museum for 70 plus years, so pics from anyone's visit over any of those years would be great.
There is much to come so stay tuned.

Thanks again,
311 Group @ NMOT


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