Kurt,

Has the RMPA had any success in securing more land from the landowner (farm) that basically surrounds the current museum? If memory serves me correctly, the situation from a few years ago was the father was agreeable to selling more land for expansion, but his sons were against it?

And even though Pennsylvania is currently facing a budget shortfall, has anything been firmed up regarding funding/grants for construction of a roundhouse within a reasonable time frame, i.e. 3-5 years? (even though I know that's a minute in bureaucratic time)

I just posted below that they should consider trying to purchase the EBT. Make it operational, and a static museum. More space there, that could be used for more displays, mining and industrial museum, etc. At least it would be in good hands and preserved. I know it sounds like a wild idea, but when you consider what it would cost to purchase some static displays such as some of the locos that were proposed, it doesn't sound that far fetched monetarily!
Greg Scholl

Videos
sales@gregschollvideo.com

> Has the RMPA had any success in securing
> more land from the landowner (farm) that
> basically surrounds the current museum?

Not sure we will able to expand anymore beyond our current boundaries. Farmland preservation is a big deal in Lancaster County and if we were try to develop the farmland south of the museum, it would present some problems. We will have to better utilize the land we have now for any further expansion. We are now developing plans to start fundraising to build the roundhouse in the yard, so stay tuned.

> And even though Pennsylvania is currently
> facing a budget shortfall, has anything been
> firmed up regarding funding/grants for
> construction of a roundhouse within a
> reasonable time frame, i.e. 3-5 years? (even
> though I know that's a minute in
> bureaucratic time)


http://rrmuseumpa.org

If the collection is going to grow to its full potential in really representing Pennsylvania Railroading an off-site storage facility should be cosidered. The roundhouse will not add capacity, only shelter what is already in the yard. Only the Commonwealth and the FRM have the resources to "rescue" stuff that will sooner or later need a good home. There are too many museums and sites with specifically significant equipment that have an aging member base and limited and receeding funding resources. No different than the Smithsonian warehouse at Silver Hill. We need to find a rail served structure to get significant pieces out of the elements until they can be placed in exhibits that contain the context to be, not only interperted, but also enjoyed.

If someone in state government had the will and understood the need then maybe the land could be condemmed with the farmer getting his asking price. I don't think you will see that in the incoming administration. I am afraid that the state museum system will become a step-child rather than a showpiece. The RRMPA is an economic engine for the county. It has the highest attendence figues of any facility in the State's museum system. Surely when the locals were fighting with Altoona and Mt Union for the museum the local politicians were singing a far different song.

v-scarpitti@worldnet.att.net

> No different than the
> Smithsonian warehouse at Silver Hill. We
> need to find a rail served structure to get
> significant pieces out of the elements until
> they can be placed in exhibits that contain
> the context to be, not only interperted, but
> also enjoyed.

Of course the ideal railroad version of Silver Hill would be the Hollidaysburg Car Shop, now vacant and in search of a tenant or buyer, with something in the neighborhood of 700,000 square feet and about three miles of track under roof. Unfortunately such a use would not go over well with community and regional interests seeking appropriate economic redevelopment of a prime site - "highest and best use" probably would not include a big train barn full of rusting relics.

Tennessee Valley Railroad Museum has for years employed off site storage for a significant part of its unrestored collection. The location is secure albeit not under cover. It does however allow TVRM to put its best foot forward with the visiting public.

Alan Maples

AMaples@aol.com

Scholl wins the prize! Did not the Kovalchicks 'offer' the Mt Union EBT yards as a potential location for RRMPA way back when? In addition, I believe they offered to standard gauge the EBT to Rockhill Furnace. Something reconstructed along the lines of the coal transfer plant would make a fine exhibition hall. HMMMMM.

One issue with an off-site facility is transportation of the artifacts to and from the RRM for display, restoration etc. The big roads are likely to refuse to move some of this stuff with obsolete bearings, brakes etc.

The solution might be a roll-on, roll-off flatcar and a permanent ramp but such a load might need moved as a dimensional move account height or the special handling a wheeled load will need.

Anpther solution might be a facility on a carrier that WILL move the cars to Leaman Place on their own wheels. (I am assuming the Strasburg R R is willing to do so)


Electric City Trolley Museum Association

> Another solution might be a facility on a
> carrier that WILL move the cars to Leaman
> Place on their own wheels. (I am assuming
> the Strasburg R R is willing to do so)

Perhaps you (we, any of us) are to used to one time moving shots. When you (we, any of us) have the potential to move x number of cars over y number of years you (we, any of us) could save some money with a specialized roll-on rig. Then your next problem is highway permits. It would be interesting to see how cross country deaccession and or storage locations would proceed if the costs of moving were reduced by a group effort.


lamontdc@adelphia.net

Kurt,

We have given you a lot to chew over for future additions. But the space issue is a good
question. Where to put it?

And do you have any pet additions you would like to see? I know that I do for my museum.

Ted Miles

ted_miles@nps.gov

Kurt,

We have given you a lot to chew over for future additions. But the space issue is a good
question. Where to put it?

And do you have any pet additions you would like to see? I know that I do for my museum.

Ted Miles

ted_miles@nps.gov

> Of course the ideal railroad version of
> Silver Hill would be the Hollidaysburg Car
> Shop, now vacant and in search of a tenant
> or buyer, with something in the neighborhood
> of 700,000 square feet and about three miles
> of track under roof. Unfortunately such a
> use would not go over well with community
> and regional interests seeking appropriate
> economic redevelopment of a prime site -
> "highest and best use" probably
> would not include a big train barn full of
> rusting relics.

> Tennessee Valley Railroad Museum has for
> years employed off site storage for a
> significant part of its unrestored
> collection. The location is secure albeit
> not under cover. It does however allow TVRM
> to put its best foot forward with the
> visiting public.

> Alan Maples

Perhaps a more realistic solution, if it's still there, would be the former PRR m.u. shops at Paoli, much closer to Strasburg than Hollidaysburg. Or maybe one of the big steel mill buildings at Lukens in Coatesville. Either one would afford a big covered space with track inside.

K4s1361@hotmail.com

Paoli shop has been torn down and the site cleared for remediation. Some of the site is scheduled to become a parking lot for the SEPTA/Amtrak station. Lukens is still a working steel plant as part of Bethlehem Steel.

Electric City Trolley Museum Association

If space is a future concern perhaps RMPA should keep an eye on the old Cumberland Valley Railroad backshop in Chambersburg, PA. The building is currently being used as a food processing plant but still retains its original form. I am sure the track to the shop would have been removed by now but if there are no land issues it would be easy to relay the track down the old yard ladder from the NS mainline. Some of the yard tracks could be rebuilt for additional storage. The last time I was in the shop with the CR local crew switching the plant around 1980 the 200 ton Niles overhead crane was still there. It seemed out of place with tons of apple sause stored below. I am sure it is still there. Also on the property is a portion of the roundhouse that was being used as an outdoor market a few years ago. A PRR caboose was moved to the property near the roundhouse and is on display.
Obviously obtaining more land at the museum is the first and most sensible option. But if this is not in the cards the Chambersburg site is closer to Strasburg than Altoona and has a railroad heritage. It could serve as a restoration shop as well as a satalite museum. Being just off interstate 81 would help draw people in. The trick would be to be ready to go if the plant should close.

jhbohon@yahoo.com

> Paoli shop has been torn down and the site
> cleared for remediation. Some of the site is
> scheduled to become a parking lot for the
> SEPTA/Amtrak station. Lukens is still a
> working steel plant as part of Bethlehem
> Steel.
the paoli shop building is still standing but all the yard trackage has been torn up. im sure the building will be torn down once they finish the environmental cleanup

splitenz30@yahoo.com

Everyone's suggestions are very appropos. Concerning our space issues, yes, we don't have much left. The preparation of the Collecting Plan does not necessarily we will go on a carte blanche collecting binge, but it will help us justify what to accept as a donation and what not to accept and focus on our strengths and weaknesses. All museums should have a collecting plan in place to guide their decision making; to quote my friend Jack White, "when you end up collecting everything, you take care of nothing." We have discussed the possibility of off-site collections storage, and yes hard decisions will need to be made on what to accept and retain. We have plenty of examples of steam locomotives but diesels are definitely something high on our desired acquisitions list. And not just engines and cars...we are better defining all types of artifacts we will accept. For instance, we have thousands of timetables that in many respects are duplicates. Do we continue to collect timetables of the past, or looking at a weaker part of our collection, should we pursue collecting artifacts of the present? There are many collections-related issues I could get into, and with limited resources at hand it can be exasperating just thinking about it all. I am happy to say that we are addressing our cataloguing backlog with great fervor in recent years and are making very good progress, thanks to the able leadership provided by our Director, David Dunn, and our Curator, Bradley Smith. Last year I inventoried all of our loose steam locomotive parts and appurtances and tagged and i.d.'ed everything that wasn't bolted to a steam loco frame (Those of you who peer down from the overhead bridge in Rolling Stock Hall into the PRR tenders will notice all of those i.d. tags--that's my work!). Having been open for the last thirty years we have accumulated a very impressive collection of historic artifacts plus so much more that is in storage. Our intention is to get more of this stuff out and on display. When $4.5 M is released and climate control is installed in RSH, many of these prized artifacts will figure prominently into our new interpretive exhibition which will fill the asiles and walls of Rolling Stock Hall. We have many exciting plans in store for the years ahead. It just doesn't all happen overnight for various well-intended reasons. Walk a year in my shoes, and it become abundantly clear.

> If space is a future concern perhaps RMPA
> should keep an eye on the old Cumberland
> Valley Railroad backshop in Chambersburg,
> PA. The building is currently being used as
> a food processing plant but still retains
> its original form. I am sure the track to
> the shop would have been removed by now but
> if there are no land issues it would be easy
> to relay the track down the old yard ladder
> from the NS mainline. Some of the yard
> tracks could be rebuilt for additional
> storage. The last time I was in the shop
> with the CR local crew switching the plant
> around 1980 the 200 ton Niles overhead crane
> was still there. It seemed out of place with
> tons of apple sause stored below. I am sure
> it is still there. Also on the property is a
> portion of the roundhouse that was being
> used as an outdoor market a few years ago. A
> PRR caboose was moved to the property near
> the roundhouse and is on display.
> Obviously obtaining more land at the museum
> is the first and most sensible option. But
> if this is not in the cards the Chambersburg
> site is closer to Strasburg than Altoona and
> has a railroad heritage. It could serve as a
> restoration shop as well as a satalite
> museum. Being just off interstate 81 would
> help draw people in. The trick would be to
> be ready to go if the plant should close.