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 Post subject: Re: The Cars That Went to Mexico...That are Still There
PostPosted: Fri Jul 10, 2020 1:00 pm 

Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2004 8:44 am
Posts: 691
Location: Salt Lake City, Utah
See below

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David Wilkinson
Salt Lake City, UT


Last edited by davew833 on Fri Jul 10, 2020 1:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: The Cars That Went to Mexico...That are Still There
PostPosted: Fri Jul 10, 2020 1:52 pm 

Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2004 8:44 am
Posts: 691
Location: Salt Lake City, Utah
The Silver Planet had some interesting modifications during its career for Silver Creek International, including replacement of the original trucks with some from a Japanese Kinki Sharyo passenger car of much later manufacture, and modifying some of the dome window frames to accept flat glass, as well as blanking many of them out altogether. There was little or nothing original left of the interior, which had been reupholstered in what could have charitably been called '90s RV-style.

I hope the fire damage wasn't too serious. Fire-damaged Budd domes have been restored before. Hopefully the ex-NYC observation car was saved too.

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David Wilkinson
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 Post subject: Re: The Cars That Went to Mexico...That are Still There
PostPosted: Fri Jul 10, 2020 7:02 pm 

Joined: Sat Oct 17, 2015 5:55 pm
Posts: 1145
diningcartim wrote:
So the MUTEC museum in Mexico City - did it close because of lack of volunteers, money or what? Is the equipment "safe" or in danger of being cut up?


Is this a car you are wondering about (based on your handle)? I wonder if the EL dining car group knows about it?

DL&W:

Diner 460, Pullman?. Sold to Mexican Government, converted for Presidential Train use. Republica Mexicana 5. MUTEC, Mexico City. Museum closed circa 2017, car (along with all the other rail equipment here) still on site as of October 2019.

Edit: Yes they do, they saw this thread. From the Erie Lackawanna Dining Car Society Facebook page: "Purchased 1911, Barney & Smith. Steel frame, wooden superstructure. Rebuilt by DL&W 1936, Stricken 1945."


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 Post subject: Re: The Cars That Went to Mexico...That are Still There
PostPosted: Fri Jul 10, 2020 8:26 pm 

Joined: Wed Oct 24, 2007 3:07 pm
Posts: 141
Location: Hendersonville, NC
I wonder if any of the four unique D&RGW cars that were built as 5 rmte/6 dbr/5 rmte for the Prospector and then rebuilt to 5 sect/6 dbr/5 rmte and were sold to NdeM around 1970 have survived? Wayner lists them as 5-5-6's, but they were in fact 5-6-5's.

I believe they were the highest-capacity sleepers rostered by the SCD/NdeM.

Jim Tatum


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 Post subject: Re: The Cars That Went to Mexico...That are Still There
PostPosted: Fri Jul 10, 2020 11:11 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 8:51 pm
Posts: 1836
Location: Southern California
1702 wrote:
I wonder if any of the four unique D&RGW cars that were built as 5 rmte/6 dbr/5 rmte for the Prospector and then rebuilt to 5 sect/6 dbr/5 rmte and were sold to NdeM around 1970 have survived? Wayner lists them as 5-5-6's, but they were in fact 5-6-5's.
Wayner was following a typical system of listing the capacity by grade of accommodation and not by the physical arrangement of the interior of the car.

5 Section - 5 Roomette - 6 Double Bedroom

I guess this is a mater of syntax.

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Brian Norden


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 Post subject: Re: The Cars That Went to Mexico...That are Still There
PostPosted: Sat Jul 11, 2020 12:04 am 

Joined: Wed Oct 24, 2007 3:07 pm
Posts: 141
Location: Hendersonville, NC
Makes sense, Brian. Guess I've only seen the cars listed by physical layout, which probably is the most-used method.

Jim Tatum


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 Post subject: Re: The Cars That Went to Mexico...That are Still There
PostPosted: Sun Jul 12, 2020 9:50 pm 
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Location: Denver, CO
1702 wrote:
I wonder if any of the four unique D&RGW cars that were built as 5 rmte/6 dbr/5 rmte for the Prospector and then rebuilt to 5 sect/6 dbr/5 rmte and were sold to NdeM around 1970 have survived? Wayner lists them as 5-5-6's, but they were in fact 5-6-5's.

I believe they were the highest-capacity sleepers rostered by the SCD/NdeM.

Jim Tatum


That's an excellent question, one that I can't answer. That would certainly be something if any did. I do wonder, as one of the captions for a heavyweight sleeper in Wayner's book makes a comment that a number of heavyweight cars that had the carbodies reused for other purposes on farms, ranches and the like. One wonders what else could still be out there.

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Wil Hata

Railroad Preservation Index


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 Post subject: Re: The Cars That Went to Mexico...That are Still There
PostPosted: Mon Jul 13, 2020 2:17 am 

Joined: Thu Jul 12, 2007 3:37 am
Posts: 141
Excellent research, Will.
A few years ago, I was trying to track down a Pullman 10-section sleeper of 1880s-1892 design, named Uruapan.
I read that it was owned by a Mexican mining company, but when I tried to email them, they only accepted messages from shareholders, so I got nowhere.
Can anyone shed some light on this bird?
Cheers, Bob


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 Post subject: Re: The Cars That Went to Mexico...That are Still There
PostPosted: Tue Jul 14, 2020 5:57 am 
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Location: Seattle, WA - Land of Coffee
Barger shows 2 cars named Uruapan:

Uruapan, Plan #1498, 12 sections-drawing room-buffet, rebuilt from Plan #17, noted as assigned to Mexican service and destroyed by Pullman in 2/1930. Was changed in March 1921 from Tourist #4649, itself changed in December 1918 from Minnesota, which was rebuilt in January 1900 from the Plan #17 "two drawing room" (unsure on number of sections) Minnesota, which was built in 1869, and was part of the Pullman Pacific Car Company fleet, and then later part of the UP Association fleet between May 1884 and April 1898.

Uruapan, narrow gauge, Plan #1594A, 8 sections-stateroom (drawing room)-buffet, Detroit Lot #120, rebuilt in August 1900 from the Chippeta, to Mexican service in 1900, to Mexican Interoceanic service in 1906, sold in August 1918 to the American Smelting & Refining Company (ASARCO). Chippeta was built 2/23/1883 in PCW Detroit Lot #120 to Plan #73A, 10 sections, 1 of 6 cars built in that Lot between December 1881 and February 1883:

2 cars were for assignment to the Denver, South Park & Pacific, changed to UP Association in 1884, withdrawn from such in January 1889, to Mexican service in 1890 as Plan #1001 8 sections-stateroom (drawing room)-buffet.

4 cars were for assignment to the Denver & Rio Grande, including the Chippeta, with the Cascade being changed to Mexican service in 1890, Chippeta as listed above, Gunnison changed to Mexican service in 1890 as Plan #73D (8 sections-buffet), and La Veta changed to Mexican Interoceanic service in November 1898 as Plan #73F (10 sections-buffet) and renamed Xochitl.

Given the sale to ASARCO, very likely that the Uruapan you're inquiring of is the Plan #1594A car rebuilt from the Plan #73A Chippeta. Barger never did publish his planned follow-up volumes of additional dispositions for cars once they had left Pullman ownership and/or control, so no clue on when ASARCO would've resold the car to the Mexican firm. (Granted, ASARCO like many U.S. firms did have mines and related business dealings "south of the border" in that timeframe, so it could've been simply assigned to their Mexican operations, and never left as ownership changed over the years.)

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 Post subject: Re: The Cars That Went to Mexico...That are Still There
PostPosted: Wed Jul 15, 2020 3:22 pm 

Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2004 2:28 pm
Posts: 357
Does anyone know if the former Pittsburg Shawmut and Northern business car #299, the 'Janelyn', still exists in Mexico? Once the railroad was liquidated, it went to the Chihuahua al Pacifico, as "Rocohuaina". It was last purportedly last photographed at the La Junta shops of the CHP in the 1980s.


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