Hey guys,

I am gonna start asking questions for the next several days. They relate to a project I am working on.

First question is, how many of you what a Plandampf is? Does Anybody or any friends know how to start a plandampf?

Look forward to some answers.

Alec Butler

Not only do I know what one is, I’ve helped plan and execute two if them in Switzerland. Fun was had by all! We should adopt the tradition in the USA.

JohnE.

I was thinking the same thing. But it is not going to be that simple with insurance to organzine one. I had been thinking about this for years and the best way to do that is to start small.

This means in the following

1. small engines (tank engines)

2. small short lines or switching railroads

3. one steamer to start with

4. The first event to last for a day or two once every season

5. Slowly working up the ladder by adding another engine as the financial support from both railfans, organizations, and business backing allows

It might take years, I don't know if I'll be alive or any of our parents will be alive if an event for a mainline should occur.

But all that matters now is to start small. All things start from small things. You should walk before you can run big.

If anyone of you know what it takes to put on a plandampf in America, start small and do some planning now with people who have the know how.

Next question. If we start small with small engines (tank engines included) which switching or small short line railroad of 3 to 5 miles or less than that do any of you want to start on?

If you guys can make a list, we can discuss the financial and moral support to get it on.

Let me know what you think.

Alec

I doubt Plandampf could ever be installed in the USA.

Plandampf was the idea to use the steam-age infrastructure - where still intact - and run regular trains with steam locomotives with no extra fares, just go aboard the steam train as you did years ago.

After socialism had collapsed and the GDR was unified with Western Germany, lots of East-German lines still had the look of the 1920s to 1950s, were it not for the diesel at the top of the train. Steam in the GDR on standard gauge ran until 1988, the system collapsed in 1989. All coal and water infrastructure was still around. So the idea of Plandampf was born.

Plandampf ideally meant to create an atmosphere lost years or decades ago. Whilst there are still some Plandampf-like events some times, lots of the infrastructure and rolling stock have changed.

There are no possibilities of powering scheduled passenger trains in the USA and the only way to do a Plandampf in theory would be insular places like the lost BEDT, where shunting or freight train activities would not interfere with the real business, or existing museum RRs with freight consists for photographers. This has already happened in several places, the WMSR comes into my mind.

Infrastructure has changed so much since the transfrormation from steam over 60 years ago that Plandampf would most likely be Disneyland. But who knows - some seem to like it that way...

But then please give it another name.

Mike

There is a small cohort of people in the steam_tech Yahoo group who are well familiar both with existing versions of 'dampf plannung' and the best technologies to use to make them practical.

Keep in mind that in many cases the 'economics' rather than the nostalgia drives these. As such, you need a much more detailed "plan" than you may think, including careful analysis of all the factors and uncertainties to be overcome. You should also have clear exit strategies in case things don't pan out fully, specifically including arrangements made for your potential customers.

You might also think about operations that run with 'heritage' diesels requiring special attention and maintenance -- SMS with its Baldwins comes to mind.

Incidentally, 'plandampf' is not an "event", it's a service. That doesn't mean it can't be run intermittently (see the weekend commuter trains to Warnambool for an example of a 'plan' that was highly intermittent over time) but it isn't an excuse for enthusiasts to truck in a small steamer and pull a few freight cars around for the day. I'm tempted to hear what Kelly says about Strasburg using some of its power for switching -- how much of it is precisely 'opportunity use' of the steam resource to get maximum satisfaction out of for-business switching and freight handling...

Another poster beat me to the punch on why a plandampf probably would not work over here. I am glad they had a plandampf operation in South Africa 30 years ago. (read Steam Kyalami)

What I would like to see, but probably won't, is a "plandiesel." Wouldn't it be great seeing OERM's restored FP45 climbing Cajon or SP 9010 on Tehachapi?

We can dream, can't we?

The thing about this is that it would be kinda like taking a carefully restored R-series Mack and running it in regular trucking-line service, exposed to weather, road hazards, and potential damage from other drivers. Those are not things most serious preservationists would want to see done with their 'historic fabric'.

There was a moving company in the Newark, NJ area that was regularly using a 1928 Brockway (!) as a regular moving van (!!) in the late 1980s. This was not a special pride-of-the-fleet show truck; it was apparently regularly dispatched and regularly used as still 'suitable for purpose' without replacement. I still find this fascinating. Now, many of the seemingly-obvious concerns with scarce parts wearing down, maintenance requirements changing with age or state of wear -- the sorts of thing Mr. Cook regularly mentions about older EMC or EMD engines -- don't really apply to restored steam, even if not to 'full' historical standards or completeness. But they do to large, complex, modern diesel locomotives ... which would have to run reliably without endangering the rest of the 'precision scheduled railroading' operations, for what is basically no more than commodity income.

You guys are right on some things. Ellsworth, you are right about the condition of some historic equipment. With that, I believe that a plandampf (Which I might simply call Steam Revenue Revival Services or SRRS) would need to start on short lines or industrial railroads which I said earlier. By the way, thanks for letting me know that a plandampf is not an event its a service. I never really knew that.

I asked the question of plandampfs, because I did not know the important things about them.

When I mean by smaller railroads, the SMS and Strasburg really are examples for you to understand about steam operations today.

Mike you are right about the infrastructure that is long gone for 60 years. My project does mention about maybe, this is fiction for now, to build brand new shops for repairing steam and using the latest in technology to maintain them. But thats only in the future.

When I said about tank engines, I meant by my motto all things start from small things. For keeping the engines rolling during an SRRS plan for now, they should use the coal loading done by front end loaders.

As for the engines themselves, I would start with the tank engines that travel to different railroads.

Examples include the following

1. Jeddo Coal #85
2. Lehigh Valley Coal #126
3. Flagg Coal #75
4. The Chiggen
5. Visco #6
6. Little River Railroad #1

Again I would start on short lines that allow passenger excursions or even do one photo event in which some one or small business along a tourist line is delivered something by steam.

WMSR for example could on one of their photo freights a so-called revenue for someone in Frostburg. Another example is the Little River Railroad that only once can allow a small extra revenue train pulled by one of their steamers.

All of this might sound crazy, but I'm not giving up on my dream. You can ask me what it is once you read this.

I sure hope I'm not biting more off than I can chew, but I'm going to bring this to reality one patient step at a time.

Here is an example of what the first of these SRRS plans should look like. Don't think big of main line yet, that will take a while. For now we will use and run what we have for steam lovers.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_228nVwrWy4

Alec

Also I forgot to note. That for the tank engines I listed they will travel by truck to their places for these plans.

Also, the cheapest way for these plans to occur is with the cheapest price for them to occur.

Alec

Fellas, I'd love to see a nice plandampf, BUT, there hasn't been an event like that in Germany for about 20 years. I have a "puffer kisser" buddy who works for DB in Leipzig, he would have let me know if there were going to be such a thing.

Note, a plandampf is the running of all regular trains with steam in a given operating district, using steam era infrastructure, etc. This is very different from the steam festivals and "loksparades" type of events. Probably the closest thing you might see to a plandampf these days would be the Dresdener Dampflokfest, which features a number of excursions in the Dresden area with steam and vintage diesels (maybe an electric now and then) around the last part of April every year. However, there is no attempt at using steam for every one of the huge number of train movements in and around Dresden.

Corrections accepted gladly...

Oh yeah? Tell us more on how you went about doing such. Inquiring minds would like to know.

Jeff

Mt. Washington Cog Railway

Just sayin'