Hi,

I was recently shown some close-up photos of Grand Trunk 5030 in Jackson, MI and its in pretty rough shape, and by rough I mean there is asbestos leaking from the jacketing, multiple large pieces stolen, and the entire locomotive is covered in rust. The locomotive sits on land owned by a water treatment plant, but I believe it's owned by the city. A friend of mine was wondering what it would take to get the city to fix up 5030, or let a private organization do it for them. I'm wondering the same thing too, but knowing the current state of the locomotive I'm also wondering what it would take to get the city to allow a group to save parts of the locomotive like the bell or smokestack, etc. because the 5030 could easily be a lost cause for restoration of any kind. What do you think?

Thomas

Find out what plans, or lack there of, the city has for the locomotive. If they would release it, start a publicity campaign to fund the abatement and move the logo by truck, probably in several units. You are,looking at about $100K to road move it. It will not go by rail. If the city still wants it, get some proposals for an enclosed building, then abatement, then construction. Again, you are talking about $250K going this route.
You might find a museum with interest in adopting the loco as is, where is. That might be an alternative, especially if she is slated for destruction.
I doubt she is too far gone for preservation at some level, but you better assemble a dedicated and knowledgeable team before jumping ahead. I mean people with proven skills in a variety of areas, and the tenacity to stick to working the problems.
Saving a bell or whistle is not locomotive preservation.

Here is a video of how she looked in 2015.
https://youtu.be/A4jfhU5W8iQ

I don't think she is in bad shape based on this. Of course, I have not been to her up-close.
At least she still looks like a steam engine.

She didn't look that bad in 2016; I've seen worse.
But if there is a campaign to restore a GTW steam locomotive, I'll support it.

I am the one with the pictures. This folder contains every picture and video I took of her. I had permission from the Sewage plant workers to be on site of the locomotive. These pictures were taken as of August 25th, 2017.

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1Ubq7v ... j8u7fBouJy

As you can see, several parts are seized up, the boiler jacket is cracked and leaking insulation. Her other parts are deteriorating, rusting, and molding. Probably the worst thing I saw on her was the dead bird in the sand dome.

Thanks for all the detailed pictures. I would say getting the jacketing and insulation off of it would be the best thing for preservation. But seriously I thought the locomotive looked pretty reasonable yet. Obviously needs a new cab but overall looks complete minus some valve handles. By all means that bird nest needs to go too! It may not look great but many locomotives that made it to museums do not look this good. Outside storage is hard on equipment, especially with no cover and the jacketing left on with insulation under it trapping moisture. Again thanks for all the detailed pictures. Best of luck if you press onward. Regards, John.

You need to clarify if you are saving it for the city or trying to acquire the locomotive for a responsible preservation effort. If the latter, you need to find out a ton or stuff, like who will host you, and for how long. What is the business/restoration plan? Who is the person with enough expertise to know the locomotive, how it works, how to take it apart and restore it. Without this ahead of time, you need to stop. This is going to cost you a lot of money,so get your supporters together.

If you are restoring it for the city, better get a tall fence, barbed wire, and spotlights. Get police support. In communities where they are closing schools and firing teachers, don't look for alot of municipal support.

Most of all, in either case, you are looking at about $60,000 worth of asbestos abatement.

She's a great locomotive and should be getting attention from some group like Age of Steam Roundhouse. If you are a small startup, you need adults who have skill in fund raising, mechanics,locomotive knowledge,and a commitment to see the job through. If you are a bunch of high school or college train buffs, you need to stop, collect information, make a plan, bring together serious people.

I can assure you, this is rewarding, but the most intensive and sadly,sometimes divisive work, you can imagine. Seeing the locomotive come back from the dead is your biggest reward.

If you talk to the city, I wouldn't mention the "a" word as it might start a panic. Especially being near a water treatment plant. Frankly, I'd have to go with what others have said about it being in pretty good condition all things considered. My advice would be to leave it alone for the time being, but keep track of it should things change.

I don’t think my previous reply uploaded properly. I meant to say that yes, we are both high school train buffs, but a project this magnitude is way beyond us and we are not capable of restoring her alone. The city wants to move her to the nearby amtrak station, but our concern is that they will see the asbestos and want her to be scrapped.

For the sake of argument, IF there is a restoration project right now, all the safety measures are not really neccesary. The locomotive is just a few miles from a maximum security prison so police cruisers pass all the time and the 8ft fence is rusted and completely surrounding her.

We are not trying to restore her. We are just pointing out what’s wrong, what could be done, and she could be at risk.

Is just a ideal, but i see very well the baldwin 5030 restored by Steam Railroading Institute with ALCO 175 and LIMA 1225!!

Contact Jason Sobczynski - he's been getting a masters degree in dealing with cities about steam locomotives recently. I'm sure brainstorming with him would give you some good insight.

The first thing I say to anybody "complaining" about just about any lot in life--from a cold hamburger to a derelict locomotive/station to the current political leadership, is:

Propose a viable alternative.

The emphasis is on "viable."

Eradicating all guns from the U.S. landscape, for example, is certainly not viable in any sense of the "real world." Nor is passing legislation that runs afoul of the U.S. Constitution. Amending the Constitution to allow gun control is more feasible, albeit arguably not "viable" without a huge groundswell of popular support nationwide (I might say that's a "work in progress" at the moment).

A good 90% of the time, that demand for a viable alternative kills off complaining or debate--because the complainer hasn't thought that through, or could never come up with one.

If you wish to change the status quo of a derelict locomotive, you must be prepared to present a VIABLE alternative to its owners, be it a cosmetic repaint, a thorough overhaul (including private fundraising and lobbying for same--telling others to spend someone else's money, though the political status quo these days, is seldom "viable), or restoration to operation, either on location or at a "better home."

Think that through, make a solid and well-reasoned bid for an alternative, and good luck!

I see where you’re coming from but we’re not here to complain, rather point out the issue. As for coming up with a restoration plan, that’s why we posted about it here. The best we had in mind is contacting the plant for permission to visit her again, take off a few pieces such as the bell, number boards, or headlight platform and restoring those at our own expense, or have a fundraiser for the full asbestos abatement. This size of a project of course will not be taken on alone, but just a possible outline for her.

Asbestos abatement would need to be done before the city could move her in the first place. Don't waste your time worrying about that. How abatement is done is the question - if nobody who knows steam locomotives is in charge, the abatement contractors could come in a torch off everything in their way, and destroy the old jacket in the process.

I wish the article about the Gainesville Midland project was still available - it was a step by step description of a project done by a small city of a similar scope.