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 Post subject: Monticello Railway Museum / Southern 2-8-0 #401
PostPosted: Fri Apr 24, 2020 3:39 am 

Joined: Sun Feb 24, 2013 1:09 am
Posts: 104
Location: St. Louis, MO
I have visited the Monticello Railway Museum many times over the past decade, and I've never had a bad time there. I attended Southern 2-8-0 #401's grand debut in 2010, and I've attended her operating weekends on a regular basis since 2014. #401 performs brilliantly, and she always puts on a good show. The crew that operate her do a phenomenal job of keeping her in good shape and looking beautiful. The volunteers at MRM are also doing magnificent work with everything that they work on and maintain on the museum's grounds (signals, the switch tower, multiple diesels, rolling stock, etc.), and I greatly appreciate all of their hard work and dedication. I highly recommend that anyone that appreciates steam locomotives and a good railroad museum visit MRM.

Another thread about MRM: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=43750

That being said, this year marks #401's last year for operating before she goes down for her 1472-day inspection. If MRM is able to open their doors and perform their normal operations (adjusting as need-be given the circumstances so far this year), I highly recommend to anyone (who is able to make the trip out to MRM) to visit that museum and ride behind ol' #401.

I, personally, don't think that #401 will be down for very long (considering that her boiler was built in 2004), but I don't speak for MRM (nor do I claim do know their plans). Since most of us that visit/use this site know that restorations & rebuilds are unpredictable (regarding time to complete them), I highly recommend that you catch a ride behind #401 before she goes down at the end of 2020.

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Chris H.

- Diesels are boxcars with an engine, but steam is an iron horse.


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 Post subject: Re: Monticello Railway Museum / Southern 2-8-0 #401
PostPosted: Fri Apr 24, 2020 9:07 am 

Joined: Sat Aug 21, 2004 10:57 pm
Posts: 25
Location: Kennesaw, Ga
401 will not be operating this year. We're getting a jump on the 1472.

Bruce Backus


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 Post subject: Re: Monticello Railway Museum / Southern 2-8-0 #401
PostPosted: Wed Apr 29, 2020 8:17 pm 

Joined: Sun Feb 24, 2013 1:09 am
Posts: 104
Location: St. Louis, MO
This was just announced on the Monticello Railway Museum's Facebook page.

https://www.facebook.com/railwaymuseum/ ... ?__tn__=-R

Due to uncertainty with our upcoming operating season, the decision has been made to take our Southern Steam Locomotive 401 out of service for the 2020 season. This year was the last year we were going to able to operate 401 on its current 15 year boiler time. (See comments below about Federal guidelines) Instead work will begin this year on its inspection with the goal of having 401 ready to operate in 2021 on a new 15 year boiler ticket.

While we know that 401 is popular with our guests, we will be operating our normal weekend trains when our operating season begins after government and health officials deem it safe to do so.

Please follow us here on Facebook or at mrym.org for future announcements about 2020 events.

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Chris H.

- Diesels are boxcars with an engine, but steam is an iron horse.


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 Post subject: Re: Monticello Railway Museum / Southern 2-8-0 #401
PostPosted: Wed Apr 29, 2020 10:52 pm 

Joined: Wed Jan 20, 2016 1:15 pm
Posts: 659
That’s an extremely sensible decision to make. 2020 is gonna be a no-go for major events I think so take the engine down so it’s for sure ready when the world is back to “normal”

#401 is the only still operating southern locomotive I haven’t seen under steam... I’ll have to be sure to visit in 2021. (Others of course are #630, #4501 & #154.)


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 Post subject: Re: Monticello Railway Museum / Southern 2-8-0 #401
PostPosted: Thu Apr 30, 2020 11:46 am 

Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2005 1:25 pm
Posts: 5814
Crescent-Zephyr wrote:
That’s an extremely sensible decision to make. 2020 is gonna be a no-go for major events I think so take the engine down so it’s for sure ready when the world is back to “normal”

#401 is the only still operating southern locomotive I haven’t seen under steam... I’ll have to be sure to visit in 2021. (Others of course are #630, #4501 & #154.)


C-Z:

You're missing one other one. Morehead & North Fork #12 is a former Southern 0-6-0. Has operated at the Age of Steam Roundhouse in Ohio after being restored.

Les


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 Post subject: Re: Monticello Railway Museum / Southern 2-8-0 #401
PostPosted: Thu Apr 30, 2020 1:20 pm 

Joined: Wed Jan 20, 2016 1:15 pm
Posts: 659
Oh thanks! I’ve seen photos of the #12 running but didn’t realize it was originally a Southern locomotive.


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 Post subject: Re: Monticello Railway Museum / Southern 2-8-0 #401
PostPosted: Thu Apr 30, 2020 1:44 pm 

Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2005 1:25 pm
Posts: 5814
Crescent-Zephyr wrote:
Oh thanks! I’ve seen photos of the #12 running but didn’t realize it was originally a Southern locomotive.


C-Z:

I believe her Southern Railway number was 1643. Perhaps someone has a photo of her in her SR lettering.

Les


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 Post subject: Re: Monticello Railway Museum / Southern 2-8-0 #401
PostPosted: Thu Apr 30, 2020 5:41 pm 

Joined: Mon Jun 24, 2013 12:54 pm
Posts: 293
Not my picture, but a good shot of 1643 in her Southern days.

Good thinking on the part of MRM, will be good to have all the Southern girls up and running next year again.

On a similar tangent 630 should be coming due for a 1472 soon, not sure how much time she has left. She's been worked hard over the last 10 years.


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 Post subject: Re: Monticello Railway Museum / Southern 2-8-0 #401
PostPosted: Thu Apr 30, 2020 6:23 pm 

Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2005 1:25 pm
Posts: 5814
southern154 wrote:
Not my picture, but a good shot of 1643 in her Southern days.

Good thinking on the part of MRM, will be good to have all the Southern girls up and running next year again.

On a similar tangent 630 should be coming due for a 1472 soon, not sure how much time she has left. She's been worked hard over the last 10 years.


southern154 -

Thanks for posting the photo of 1643 in her Southern Railway days. It brings up something I had forgotten about. There is a photo of the next Southern 0-6-0 in the sequence (1642), which shows THAT particular Southern 0-6-0 looking EXACTLY like Morehead & North Fork number 12, with the centered headlight, bell, single sand dome, etc. It always made me think that M&NF 12 wasn't really SR 1643 but really that other 0-6-0, number 1642. Unless of course, 1643 was changed exactly the same way. I could never quite figure out why the Southern changed 1642's looks so much. Was it a program to change all of the 0-6-0's? If so, why weren't they done? OR, perhaps there was a wreck or something. If THAT'S the case, then it seems that M&NF # 12 isn't really SR 1643 after all! A mystery, probably never to be solved!

Les


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 Post subject: Re: Monticello Railway Museum / Southern 2-8-0 #401
PostPosted: Thu Apr 30, 2020 10:40 pm 

Joined: Fri Mar 13, 2009 12:10 pm
Posts: 169
Location: TN
Les Beckman wrote:
southern154 wrote:
Not my picture, but a good shot of 1643 in her Southern days.

Good thinking on the part of MRM, will be good to have all the Southern girls up and running next year again.

On a similar tangent 630 should be coming due for a 1472 soon, not sure how much time she has left. She's been worked hard over the last 10 years.


southern154 -

Thanks for posting the photo of 1643 in her Southern Railway days. It brings up something I had forgotten about. There is a photo of the next Southern 0-6-0 in the sequence (1642), which shows THAT particular Southern 0-6-0 looking EXACTLY like Morehead & North Fork number 12, with the centered headlight, bell, single sand dome, etc. It always made me think that M&NF 12 wasn't really SR 1643 but really that other 0-6-0, number 1642. Unless of course, 1643 was changed exactly the same way. I could never quite figure out why the Southern changed 1642's looks so much. Was it a program to change all of the 0-6-0's? If so, why weren't they done? OR, perhaps there was a wreck or something. If THAT'S the case, then it seems that M&NF # 12 isn't really SR 1643 after all! A mystery, probably never to be solved!

Les


Hi Les,

Funny you mention that, I’ve been reviewing some Southern A-7 information I have and saw those same pictures and came to a similar conclusion/question as well, but also have theories that could explain the similarities.

The changes are similar to what many St Louis division locomotives received, sand dome changes were common on that division, this is why 4501 has a similar dome as it was assigned to this division as well. The other changes on both the 12 and the 1642 photos show the same conversion to multiple bearing cross head and short smoke stack, which are distinctive things that not many A-7’s received.. especially the stack. Also the 1642 has in the 1949 photo a box tender with a patched number (paint around the 42 is shiny) vs a slope back tank in the 1939 photo, both were common on the A-7s and the box tank is the same as what is seen on the A-7’s, but the steps are changed from their original style on that tender, same as seen on both 12 and 1642. Richard Prince notes in his roster information that 1642 was scrapped in June 1952, same time that 1643 was noted as sold to M&NF. Could this be one of those funny instances on the Southern where two concurrent numbers were assigned to the same division for the end of their lifetime on the SOU and received the same rebuilds/modifications. Maybe..? But probably not. I’ve not seen an in service photo of 1643 to confirm.

Not sure where the M&NF 12 = SOU 1643 notion comes from exactly, if it comes from Prince’s notes then perhaps he mixed the two, which the photos would support and maybe M&NF 12 actually was Southern 1642. If it is supported otherwise, 1642 and 1643 may have had the stars align and received the same changes. I will have to look through data that the SRHA has at the archives sometime soon.

Hopefully my thoughts make sense, I’ve been studying these particular locomotives in extreme detail lately for a project of my own, so I’ve noticed some of these smaller things that align too much to be just a coincidence. These locomotives varied too much to have two locomotives exactly the same, especially one number apart.

Regarding 630, currently tore apart for 5 year cap inspection, but paused for COVID, shop is focused on other projects in the interim. Roughly 2-3 years left on 1472 if similar service days are seen, else it’s 5 years till the 15-year limit.

Kyle


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 Post subject: Re: Monticello Railway Museum / Southern 2-8-0 #401
PostPosted: Thu Apr 30, 2020 10:49 pm 

Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2005 1:25 pm
Posts: 5814
Kyle -

Thanks for the info. Will try to post a photo so folks can see what we're talking about:

http://southern.railfan.net/images/arch ... 1642a.html

Thanks also for the update on 630.


Les


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 Post subject: Re: Monticello Railway Museum / Southern 2-8-0 #401
PostPosted: Fri May 01, 2020 3:09 pm 

Joined: Fri Mar 13, 2009 12:10 pm
Posts: 169
Location: TN
Thanks. The photos I was referencing were published in the Hundman Locomotive Cyclopedias/Mainline Modeler.


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 Post subject: Re: Monticello Railway Museum / Southern 2-8-0 #401
PostPosted: Sat May 02, 2020 6:56 pm 

Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2004 10:50 am
Posts: 399
As a Morehead and North Fork Historian, let me shine some light a on M&NF 12. She is in fact 1643. The proof is her boiler tag on the back head. Stamped 1643 with an operating pressure of 185.. It was purchased May 14, 1952 in Princeton Indiana for the sum of 3,500 dollars. I got this. first hand info from Woodrow Hall, who was there to inspect it. He told me that he tried to convince Merval Crosley and Cliff McClellen
that it was too old and they could get a newer engine for the same money. However, they liked the engine so it came to Clearfield. Woodrow later told me that he didn't like 12 very much due to the firebox being too small.
I like the photo of 1642 and it looks very much like her sister. However,the patch on the tender was not on the tender that came with 12. There are photos of 12 with another tender behind it. This tender came off 10 which was scrapped around the time 12 arrived. It is currently behind 11 in Everret Pa at the Bloody Run depot. Th only thing I can figure is that it must have been the best tender. Kind of cool to have 3 engines left from this cool little railroad. The third being 14 which was Woodrow's favorite.
Hope this helps clear up the mystery.
JD Johnson, Morehead and North Fork Historian


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 Post subject: Re: Monticello Railway Museum / Southern 2-8-0 #401
PostPosted: Sun May 03, 2020 3:57 pm 

Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2004 10:50 am
Posts: 399
For clarification, Merval Crosley was the General Manager
Cliff Mc Clellen was the main engineer
Woodrow Hall was a steam engine mechanic and later the last engineer of the Moerhead and North Fork Railroad.
jd johnson, Morehead and North Fork Historian


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 Post subject: Re: Monticello Railway Museum / Southern 2-8-0 #401
PostPosted: Sun May 03, 2020 4:04 pm 

Joined: Wed Jan 20, 2016 1:15 pm
Posts: 659
What does a boiler tag on a southern engine typically look like? Is it possible that these could have been swapped at some point when they thought the engines were both being scrapped?

It sounds like Kyle and Les were on to something!


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