L&N #3410 "Green River" (assigned to the Crescent) to Amtrak in 1971 as #2812. Retired 1979. Sold to NdeM as #737 as "Dormitorio America". To FNM #737.

Keep in mind that while the 3 L&N River-series cars in this group were built to the same lot and plan number as the 46-car SOU et al order, they were built with smooth sides for operation in PRR trains, not SOU trains.

To Mexico/SCD (via Anbel) as 707 "America".

I missed one of the Budd diners:

Found a reference over on MEXLIST at Yahoo! Finances:



NYC 44 seat diner #467 constructed in 1948 by Budd in Lot #9644-004 (assigned to the Royal Palm).

That makes 219 cars total.

There are what appear to be some of either the 1941 Pullman or 1949-50 baggage-rpos still existing in Roanoke. A friend took this photo the other day. He indicated they've been there at least since the late 90s. http://nsconductor1.rrpicturearchives.n ... id=3637490

He had posted a higher resolution version elsewhere and there looks to be numbers like 1703? 1728? On the near car that were rubbed out.

Those are ACF 1950 Baggage Post office cars (later full baggage), originally 1727 and 1728. 1727 was the tool car for the Monroe, VA wreck train before going to Roanoke and 1728 was the tool car for the Sheffield, AL and later Decatur, IL wrecker before going to Roanoke. Their sister from the CNO&TP 3589 went on to Amtrak and was HEP'd at some point.

ETA

Wow! Very interesting!

Thanks for posting the photo link!

They both appear to be in pretty decent shape!

On a side note, I spotted some sort of a baggage-coach with a Harriman/Common Standard roof in the background. What's the story on that one??

That's one of Southern's 1032 to 1046 series single vestibule modernized heavyweight coaches -- don't have the number handy. It was assigned to the Huntingburg, IN wrecker outfit and later transferred to Roanoke. These cars were rebuilt from Pullman's and were Southern's top of the line heavyweight rebuilds. There are a surprising number of cars from this series still out there, many in service.

ETA

Thanks, ETA, for the info!

Adding to etalco's comments, the heavyweight car is currently used as a conference room/lunchroom for the Car Dept. at Shaffers Crossing. I have also heard that the two lightweight baggage cars are slated for retirement. Get your donation requests in soon.....

An Update:

P-S Cars:

I received in the mail today Volume One of W. David Randall's Streamliner Cars, which covers lightweight cars built by P-S.

As such, I was able to locate the dispositions for several of the few remaining mystery cars in this otherwise complete SOU roster:

1. L&N 10RM-6DB sleeper #3412 "Barren River" was wrecked in 1968--although not noted as such, in all likeliness it was subsequently scrapped.

2. PRR 56 seat coach #4030 "New York" was retired and scrapped in 1966.

3. PRR 56 seat coach #4031 "New Jersey" to PC (same #) was retired and sold in 1971 to a private owner in Fort Monmouth, NJ.

4. PRR 56 seat coach #4032 "Pennsylvania" after having been wrecked while in the consist of PRR train #208 at Kokomo, IN, on 2/7/1956, the retirement and scrap date is listed as 1965. Was the car stored for nine years and then scrapped, or was it not officially stricken from the roster for nine years? Either scenario is plausible.

5. SOU 48 seat diners #3300-#3303 were retired and scrapped in 1966.

AC&F Cars:

As for the ex-CofG baggage and baggage-RPO cars built by AC&F, this will have to wait until Volumes 2 and 3 of Streamliner Cars arrive in the mail sometime in the next several days. At that time I'll be able to figure out this entanglement of which baggage car was acquired by the Savannah Chapter! Stay tuned!

Source:

1. "Streamliner Cars Volume One: Pullman Standard" by W. David Randall (RPC Publications, 1981)

Today, both Volumes 2 and 3 of Streamliner Cars arrived in the mail, so here's the dispositions for the AC&F-built CofG cars:

Six Cars, Lot #2727, CofG #453-#458:

#453: scrapped, 1971

#454: scrapped, 1971

#455: listed as sold in 1968 to the New Orleans Chapter NRHS, now at the Louisiana Railroad Heritage Trust in Kenner, LA.

#456: scrapped, 1971

#457: scrapped, 1971

#458: listed as donated in 1968 to the Savannah, GA, Red Cross--making this the car that was later owned by the New Georgia Railroad.

Two Cars, Lot #2728, CofG #473-#474:

#473: scrapped, 1971

#474: scrapped, 1968

Source:

1. "Streamliner Cars Volume Three: ACF - Other Builders" by W. David Randall (RPC Publications, 1982)

A further addendum after having looked through Volume 3:

Back on page 5 of this thread, ETA stated that L&N baggage-dormitories #1598 and #1599 (AC&F, 1950, Lot #3139) went to Habco.

Volume 3 lists #1598 as having gone to Louisville Scrap Metal in 1964, and #1599 as having been wrecked in 1953. Can anyone clarify?

Before I get into what I can add to what already has been mentioned through out this thread let me apologize for my lateness in jumping into the fray and trying to play "catch-up" with what I can add... while I have been involved to varying degrees within the RYPN forum I only found this thread today so there is a lot that I am needing to catch up on.

Now on to what I can add...


These cars are on the ACWR at Star and have been for a number of years. Acquired from Florida Central they have carried ACWR paint for most of the last decade, with links to several shots being found under the ACWR listing at the Passenger Car Photo Index. These cars are formerly PC/PRR 4625 Budd kitchen - lounge and PC/PRR 4624 table car and I am glad to now know that before FCEN obtained the cars that they served on the New Georgia... will get that added into their histories in the next day or so and get the updated pages reposted. Any idea where they came from before they served the New Georgia?


I can find no evidence of this car ever being rebuilt from its original 68-seat configuration in any of the books that I have. It definitely was still 68-seat when the Southern took over the CG and various editions of the Railway Passenger Car Annual books all list it as being 68-seat.


Only one car, 663, was assigned to the City of Miami, and was equipped with trainline PA. speakers and wiring in addition to wearing IC paint. What is more, while SR (yah, I know, its suppose to be "SOU" but Southern, itself, used "SR" on all sorts of documentation for decades so if it was good enough for them its good enough for me) acquired the CG circa 1963 these cars remained owned by and lettered for the CG up until the discontinuance of the CG trains when the CG joined Amtrak and the court battle ended in favor of it being treated as a separate entity.

What is more, unlike coaches SOU 664 Fort Oglethorpe, 665 Fort McPherson, 727 Fort Mitchell, 905, 906 (ex-CG 506 and 528, both modernized heavyweights) and 907 (ex-CG 543) coaches 660 - 662 were carried on SR documentation as "CG 660, CG 661, CG 662" even though they carried no sublettering showing this. In some of my correspondence with Mr. W. Graham Claytor, Jr., as a teenager, I received a variety of documents which included a complete list of revenue passenger cars and this was how these three cars were shown in the list. It was, after all, optional for a road joining Amtrak to transfer equipment to AMTK which went towards what each road had to pay to join it... given the fact that the cars were in great shape it was no wonder SR kept them... just curious that "on the books" they were listed as still being CG.


This car is the former AMTK 5299 that is mentioned earlier in this thread that received patched AMTK paint, formerly SOU 846, which was sold to the circus in 1982. I do hope that the man behind the ACWR doesn't take this route, especially since it is the only ex-SOU PS coach that retains its corrugation. Given the condition of some of the other cars in his "collection" it is not the only one in rough shape but that hasn't stopped him from having work done even when it involves rare parts. Given the condition of the former PRR/Pullman Defender car when it arrived on the ACWR and sad in Aberdeen for a good while before its rehabilitation was complete I believe that he will carry out the work given enough time and money... its not so much a matter of "if" as it is "when."


Retired and sold by AMTK in 1981 to NdeM/SCD, becoming 723, likely via Anbel.


I am not sure I would agree that they were outwardly "similar" since the 452 used typical heavyweight construction with a low profile arched roof and the ACF baggage - express and baggage - mail cars were more in line with typical aluminum cars with riveted sides, though, like the NKP ACF baggage - express and two of the West Point Route baggage - express they featured built up framing on the car ends similar to what was done with heavyweights. (Ironically, the West Point Route's earlier ACF cars looked more like 452 than a lightweight car... though such is not very evident from WPR diagrams.)


The car's number is SOU 960422.

There was photos of an ex-SOU Mod. HW baggage - coach that supposedly was to join the new NS excursion fleet but I can't find the photos now of it nor can I find its number. May be NS 960000 but I simply am not sure now.


Simple... a second car numbered 1599 was built to replace the original one, the 2nd #1599 being built by PS as a shell in October 1954 and finished by the L&N with parts from #1599 [1st]. #1599:2 was retired 1969 and sold to Horne Boatright Chemical Co.

There were a few more points I was going to mention but I can't remember what I was going to say about them but I suspect that this post will be a record for me given its length.

Again, let me say that "I am sorry!" for this post's length but I wanted to get all of this added in while I have time to do so... now to go in search of the "New Georgia" thread that has been mentioned...

So when are we going to move on to "Part four... the DOME cars???" Got quite a bit of info in regards to dome - parlor 1602 and dome - coach 1613, including stories I can tell about my rides on both cars before and after I joined the Army (but before I joined the Navy).

Most of the initial legwork for a definitive dome car list has already been done: Karl Zimmerman's 1997 book Domeliners: Yesterday's Trains of Tomorrow has a complete list in the back. All someone needs to do is update about a decade or two. I have a copy somewhere, scored from the bankruptcy sale of a local bookstore chain caught in unethical financial shenanigans, for only $5 or so......

Two updates worth noting:

One of the three cars formerly owned by Don Primi, CNO&TP 11DB sleeper #3499 "Royal Palm" (rebuilt in 1958 from the original 5DB-22 seat buffet lounge round end observation configuration) is currently listed for sale on Sterling Rail. See here: http://www.sterlingrail.com/classifieds/classified.php?id=9368. What's interesting about this sale is that the attached car diagram (http://www.sterlingrail.com/files/9368_Diagram.pdf) has labels in the upper right corner for both "Gold Coast Limited" and "Royal Rail". The "Royal Palm" listing on Sterling has an asking price of $125,000, and incorrectly lists a configuration of 12 bedrooms.

"Gold Coast Limited" owned a second car from the "Royal"-series, A&WP "Royal Palace", which unlike the "Royal Palm" was not changed from its original configuration. Does anyone know if "Gold Coast Limited" owned any additional cars and how they were related to "Royal Rail"??

"Royal Rail" formerly owned several lightweight cars, including CB&Q #483 4DB-1C lounge round end observation "Minneapolis Club", US Army #89548 (now North Carolina DOT #400000 [2nd] "North Carolina"), and Wabash 12RM-4DB sleeper "Western Sunset" (which was later N&W dormitory #451 "Hollins College" [2nd]/NS #10).

CNO&TP #3499 "Royal Palm" (Amtrak #800347) was the only one of Don Primi's three SOU lightweights whose location remained unknown.

Don Primi also owned a second 11DB sleeper converted from the original sleeper lounge observation configuration, SOU #2301 "Royal Court" (Amtrak #800348)--which is now stored on the Morristown & Erie in New Jersey.

Don Primi's third SOU car was 1MR-2DR-21 seat buffet lounge #2351 "Crescent Harbor" (Amtrak #800349), which is the second update for this post.

"Crescent Harbor" was acquired by the Watauga Valley Chapter NRHS, which has been worked on restoring the car to operational status over the last several years. According to their website (here: http://www.wataugavalleynrhs.org/equipmentroster.php and here: http://www.wataugavalleynrhs.org/gallery/thumbnails.php?album=2), the majority of the work has now been completed and the "Crescent Harbor" recently returned to service. Does anyone know if the "Crescent Harbor" has been used in any excursions yet?

_________________
Additions and corrections are welcome. Thanks in advance.

A Very Merry Eighth Day of Christmas and a Happy New Year!!