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 Post subject: Bangor and Aroostook 502 and friends.
PostPosted: Wed May 29, 2013 9:14 am 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 11:26 am
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Location: Maine
Her sisters in Lackawanna paint are often spoken of, but few people get the see the last original Bangor and Aroostook F3A, now property of the Montreal, Maine, and Atlantic Railroad. I was up in the shops on business, and offered a chance to look her over and take a few pictures. The locomotive still retains the prime mover. Her traction motors are out, and stored on pallets. The locomotive is kept indoors. There is some surface rust and a good repainting will be required before she travels again, if ever. I did not go in the cab, but there appeared to be some minor water damage to the interior cab roof. Other than that, she's been kept in pretty good shape. No plans for her, but "she's the CEO's baby".

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Former Santa Fe CF7's, rebuilt from F7's at Clovis Shops, many years ago. Story I was given is, these are being parted out to support locomotives in eastern Europe. Just an interesting find on the back shop tracks. Also two ex-CNR SD40's going the same way.

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BTW, there was an original BAR GP9 on RIP track, formerly used as a shop switcher, but now dead and awaiting a decision. I noted a weighted Blomberg truck out back, apparently a switcher of some kind, but I couldn't tell if it was simply stored or in use.

DON'T SHOW UP AT THE SHOPS EXPECTING TO BE LET IN. IT IS A SECURE FACILITY.

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 Post subject: Re: Bangor and Aroostook 502 and friends.
PostPosted: Fri May 31, 2013 6:22 am 
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I moved this to Interchange because it appears to be very much preservation related.

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 Post subject: Re: Bangor and Aroostook 502 and friends.
PostPosted: Fri May 31, 2013 8:29 am 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 8:28 am
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Location: Salt Lake City, Utah
Nice photos Richard.

I believe those aren't CF7s but they are of Santa Fe heritage. Those appear to be "Topeka Geeps" which are rebuilt GP7s and 9s that the Santa Fe did in Topeka. Both those and CF7s have the angular cab. Though CF7s have really short noses.

I wonder why the traction motors are out of the F unit?

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 Post subject: Re: Bangor and Aroostook 502 and friends.
PostPosted: Fri May 31, 2013 10:49 am 

Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2005 1:25 pm
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wilkinsd wrote:
Nice photos Richard.

I believe those aren't CF7s but they are of Santa Fe heritage. Those appear to be "Topeka Geeps" which are rebuilt GP7s and 9s that the Santa Fe did in Topeka. Both those and CF7s have the angular cab.



David -

The local grain elevator in Malden, Indiana on the Chesapeake & Indiana short line, has one of these "Topeka Geeps" that they use for switching. The unit is still in its original blue and yellow paint with the large Santa Fe still on the hood sides. Also currently located at Malden (in outside storage) is C&O SD-18 #7311 in its original Chessie paint scheme. Passenger trains from the Hoosier Valley Railroad Museum don't ever venture over to Malden as the track is not certified for passenger operation, but those two units are certainly worth a visit.

Les


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 Post subject: Re: Bangor and Aroostook 502 and friends.
PostPosted: Wed Aug 07, 2013 9:35 pm 

Joined: Thu Mar 24, 2011 12:07 pm
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Well, the CEO's baby is now owned by the banks, with the bankruptcy filing today.
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/5a15b74a-ffa0 ... z2bKxnqMO7
Its my understanding that the US filing is a Chapter 11, which means the F3 would be open to anyone with the money. Either that, or it and the other parked equipment gets cut up to pay back the monetary losses that are mounting against the MM&A.
Edit; The filing was indeed a Chapter 11 filing, as proved by this article
http://www.stockhouse.com/news/business ... -after-lac

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Last edited by daylight4449 on Wed Aug 07, 2013 10:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Bangor and Aroostook 502 and friends.
PostPosted: Wed Aug 07, 2013 9:45 pm 
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CBC also has a story on this posted, with no subscription or registration required to view it. It has a link to the bankruptcy filing papers:

http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/story/2 ... c-mma.html

PC

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 Post subject: Re: Bangor and Aroostook 502 and friends.
PostPosted: Thu Aug 08, 2013 3:02 am 
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daylight4449 wrote:
Well, the CEO's baby is now owned by the banks, with the bankruptcy filing today. Its my understanding that the US filing is a Chapter 11, which means the F3 would be open to anyone with the money. Either that, or it and the other parked equipment gets cut up to pay back the monetary losses that are mounting against the MM&A.


It'll be interesting to see if any museums or private individuals put in a bid for the 502 during the Chapter 11 proceedings, or if another covered wagon unfortunately gets turned into razor blades.
On a side note, I've never seen any pictures of a BAR cab unit in that two-tone gray scheme before. Must've looked pretty sharp when it was all new and shiny.
On another side note, in terms of preserved BAR rolling stock, at least the business car "Suitsme" has a secure future.
And one last question: how many of those colorful "State of Maine" boxcars are still floating around, either at museums or in other hands?

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 Post subject: Re: Bangor and Aroostook 502 and friends.
PostPosted: Thu Aug 08, 2013 7:43 am 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 11:26 am
Posts: 4241
Location: Maine
I know of one at Conway Scenic, and half of one at Derby, used as a steel shed. I would think the F3A would be more valuable as a historic locomotive, rather than scrap. With the exception of the traction motors, she's good to go.
The thing I'm really afraid of losing is the massive collection of old blueprints laying about an empty office building at Derby. Here, I'm talking about hundreds of drawings and copies or drawings, going back to the early 20th century. Some are in draws, others scattered around in heaps. Whether they are worth much, I can't say, but as historical property, it offers a view of what once comprised the Bangor and Aroostook Railroad.

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 Post subject: Re: Bangor and Aroostook 502 and friends.
PostPosted: Thu Aug 08, 2013 7:59 am 

Joined: Fri Aug 27, 2004 4:02 pm
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Location: Back in NE Ohio
So, just about every major railroad in N. America requires $200 Mil. in liability insurance to run a fan trip, but a commercial railroad hauling hazardous materials through populated areas only has $25M in insurance?


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 Post subject: Re: Bangor and Aroostook 502 and friends.
PostPosted: Thu Aug 08, 2013 8:31 am 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 8:28 am
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Location: Salt Lake City, Utah
daylight4449 wrote:
Well, the CEO's baby is now owned by the banks, with the bankruptcy filing today.
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/5a15b74a-ffa0 ... z2bKxnqMO7
Its my understanding that the US filing is a Chapter 11, which means the F3 would be open to anyone with the money. Either that, or it and the other parked equipment gets cut up to pay back the monetary losses that are mounting against the MM&A.
Edit; The filing was indeed a Chapter 11 filing, as proved by this article
http://www.stockhouse.com/news/business ... -after-lac


This is a wildly incorrect statement of what a Chapter 11 bankruptcy is under the United States Code. Chapter 11 is mainly used by corporations to reorganize their debts. During the bankruptcy, a trustee is appointed by the Court to operate the business. While liquidation of assets can occur as part of a Chapter 11 plan, it doesn't always happen. In the end, it is up to the trustee and the Court what happens to the 502, and it is not necessarily "open to anyone with money."

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 Post subject: Re: Bangor and Aroostook 502 and friends.
PostPosted: Thu Aug 08, 2013 8:57 am 
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Joined: Mon Aug 05, 2013 2:42 am
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Location: Seattle, WA - Land of Coffee
wilkinsd wrote:
This is a wildly incorrect statement of what a Chapter 11 bankruptcy is under the United States Code. Chapter 11 is mainly used by corporations to reorganize their debts. During the bankruptcy, a trustee is appointed by the Court to operate the business. While liquidation of assets can occur as part of a Chapter 11 plan, it doesn't always happen. In the end, it is up to the trustee and the Court what happens to the 502, and it is not necessarily "open to anyone with money."


Thanks for the explanation, David. It's reassuring for the future of the 502. Assets of the MM&A could be just about anything, and if the 502 does hold a value above scrap to the company, then its chances of surviving are even more elevated.

Richard Glueck wrote:
The thing I'm really afraid of losing is the massive collection of old blueprints laying about an empty office building at Derby. Here, I'm talking about hundreds of drawings and copies or drawings, going back to the early 20th century. Some are in draws, others scattered around in heaps. Whether they are worth much, I can't say, but as historical property, it offers a view of what once comprised the Bangor and Aroostook Railroad.


Reminds me of the NYC documents that got rescued from the upper floors of Buffalo Terminal several years back. Can't remember which group pulled it off, but the conditions up there and the presence of trespassers apparently heightened the importance of recovering the archives before it was too late. Hopefully somebody in the Pine Tree State can pull off a similar rescue of the Derby collection in time. Good luck--getting the documents into a secure, climate controlled facility really is half the battle (the other, more enjoyable half is getting them all organized and sorted).

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 Post subject: Re: Bangor and Aroostook 502 and friends.
PostPosted: Thu Aug 08, 2013 9:59 am 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 8:28 am
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Location: Salt Lake City, Utah
This would be a good time for someone in Maine to contact an interested library or archive. The blueprints and records have little monetary value, but I've seen where working with the trustee, such items can be salvaged by a responsible organization.

Richard, have any contacts?

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 Post subject: Re: Bangor and Aroostook 502 and friends.
PostPosted: Thu Aug 08, 2013 11:35 am 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 1:51 pm
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Location: Somewhere east of Prescott, AZ along the old Santa Fe "Prescott & Eastern"
So, does the Railroad Museum of NEW ENGLAND want to live up to that name, or is Maine considered its own fiefdom separate from New England? (^_^)


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 Post subject: Re: Bangor and Aroostook 502 and friends.
PostPosted: Thu Aug 08, 2013 12:10 pm 

Joined: Mon Jan 17, 2005 9:06 pm
Posts: 2305
Location: Thomaston & White Plains
Maine is as BIG as the rest of New England, in land mass.

RMNE has a BAR insulated "State of Maine" boxcar, complete with underslung charcoal heater (Can't freeze those Aroostook County spuds during winter transit).

As for the blueprint collection, yes, it should be saved and carefully archived. So which of our current projects (all in need of resources) should we drop to perform that rescue? Not trying to be cynical or snarky, but simply realistic. There are preservation groups, excellent ones, in Maine. We are 8 hours away.

Now I know the dedicated corps of MOXIE drinkers at Thomaston Shop will be upset!!

And we need another F-unit like a fish needs a bicycle.

By the way, two days ago I put an original PRR blueprint (for F-30D TTX flatcar lettering) into the mail to North Judson-HVRM; that's the exact print for the car they're working on. It came out of a trove of PRR mechanical dept blueprints two buddies of mine and I rescued in 1977 from a building at Meadows Yard in North Jersey. The building was trashed-- windows all gone, roof leaking, etc, and it was leveled a week after we were there. 80+ four-drawer file cabinets crammed with stuff (some of it ruined, much not) was rescued. Drawings from that stash have since been used to provide proper lettering for restorations at RR Museum of Penna., RMNE, Steamtown NHS, and a few others.

No, we did not get permission. And there are any number of things that I did in the 70s that I would not think of doing today......

With MM&A in the courts, I wonder if anyone could get official permission to rescue those prints. Who would be the "official" giving the permission, I wonder?

Howard P.

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 Post subject: Re: Bangor and Aroostook 502 and friends.
PostPosted: Thu Aug 08, 2013 2:34 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 8:28 am
Posts: 2528
Location: Salt Lake City, Utah
Howard P. wrote:
RMNE has a BAR insulated "State of Maine" boxcar, complete with underslung charcoal heater (Can't freeze those Aroostook County spuds during winter transit).


Unless you are the Penn Central.....

Howard P. wrote:

With MM&A in the courts, I wonder if anyone could get official permission to rescue those prints. Who would be the "official" giving the permission, I wonder?


The bankruptcy trustee appointed by the Court would be a good place to start. That person technically runs the company for the creditors.

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