Of course, the best long-term solution is to machine the damaged bearing surfaces perfectly cylindrical. Excessive use of polish-in-place compound would eventually leave low and high rings on the bearings, which would run hot with lateral motion of axle vs. brass. That said, "Timesaver" is sure worth carrying for emergencies.

It's also wise to rig up the "Keeley pipe" as a cheap insurance policy - water absorbs lots of heat. A black industrial-grade oil-resistant garden-size hose, or heavy-wall soft copper tubing, tied to the boiler jacket or frame, becomes nearly invisible after it accumulates a little road dust & grime, and then it's there if you ever need it.

- Doug Debs

Tell us more, Doug, please.

What "grit" or grade of the stuff was used, and did you clean off the journal afterward, or simply keep running with the Timesaver mix in there?

Timesaver is a "get-you-home" fix. The only long-term solution is proper shop prep of the journal(s) and a new bearing. Our first carman, William Lewars, would lightly skate a fine packing hook across a journal like a record player needle. He could feel any offending ridges or flaws like Mr. Debs mentions through the minute vibrations transmitted to his hand. If the flaw was enough to signal vibration, it was large enough to cause the friction necessary to generate a hotbox.

My curiosity and tongue-in-cheek comment above stems from the great smoke and racket that comes from dragging our 110 ton steam crane around the yard. It sat for too long and the journals oxidized in our famous Pennsylvania humidity. There are no plans to restore it at this time, but move it we must from time to time, and - oh - how it protests! A great groaning and gnashing of teeth. It's a sound that would make any carman cry ...

Men the STP suggestion is an interesting intermediate fix.

I'm considering the use of STP on a scale livesteamer that has some cantankerous main driver jouirnal bearings occasionally. I suppose petroleum based heavy grease would be the next incremental increase in viscosity over STP, but that is too heavy in vioscosity to "wick" up onto the journal like liquid oil does. So, I suppose its easy to go to thick on journal lube-oil.

Whats the opinion on STP, do you guys think it might be too thick to "wick" onto the journal like good journal lube-oil does?

Next someone is going to tell me that STP is made from depleted Uraium or Strongium!
Whats your opinions on STP's toxicity, is it as safe as regular petrolium greese/oil?

David

Well, not understanding the fuss, I gotta admit I have run with journals that have little circumfrential heights and dips, and with brasses a quarter inch oversize shoved in when it is the closest available, and never had a problem with either one provided lube was adequate and axle load was under spec. I don't get the space-shuttle tolerances being debated here at all. Have I just been unusually fortunate in this one area?

Why would STP be toxic if it isn't taken internally?

dave

My opinion as a conductor and carman on NH&I back in the friction bearing era is that when bearings run hot, it might be because you didn't follow the "space-shuttle tolerances" found in the A.A.R.'s Wheel & Axle Manual.
My particular example was a locomotive crane that kept melting the babbit on one bearing after another on the same journal. In frustration, my boss asked various officials at large railroads' shops for the magic answer to, "What one thing is wrong?" He didn't like it when he was told to follow the instructions, that by just replacing the bearings, you were skipping a good many other steps. He wasn't fond of book learning. Finally, he did listen to some friends and let us do the job proper, but he still didn't like it. All that checking and measuring frustrated him. As it turned out, the problem was probably in the wedge that goes on top of the bearing. The top of it was too flat! And, so was the first replacement that had been tried before we did any of that nitpicking "checking and measuring". Apparently, this interferes with the ability of the bearing to respond to slight differences in motion between the truck side frame and the axle.

Philadelphia's Broad St. Subway had a rash of hot motor bearings that were traced to problems with the wool waste used for packing. One theory was that the ability of the wool to wick oil up to the bearings was affected by what the sheep had been fed! At the height of the problem, only 30 cars from a fleet of 223 could be powered. Out of desperation, motors were pulled from 10 other cars so they could be used as trailers.

You are kidding, right?

David

No, just asking....I've used it in IC engines and it doesn't seem to have done any damage. Rocky Graziano wasn't killed by it either no matter how may times he tried to hold that screwdriver. Casual exposure seems pretty innocous, sort of like using WD 40 on painful knees.

And about those journals.......I think surface characteristics of the metal is a pretty important variable compared to exact fit or cylindricity, especially given the questionable veracity of most of our worn machinery. Real smooth is real good. And, the cars I was using were pretty light relative to journal size - a locomotive crane is much different.

dave

Because I’ve only got one container of this stuff I did some digging. In addition to Koolax there was a product made by Texaco that was called Taurak. This had a melting point of 349 degrees as advertised on the tubes of it. This product was additionally very popular in the cast bullet hobby as bullet lube. I was able to reach some at the company who was supplying after Texaco, and they stated “We gave all that stuff to a Railroad Club” She stated it was either in the Bay Area of CA, or when they moved to Benecia CA. Apparently this was a large amount.

Additionally in reading ESSO Galena Curve Lubricant is alleged to have similar qualities.

Question now is which group has this stuff? Also would another high temp product work? There is hard grease available that is good to 550 degrees could this be a substitute?

I don't know of any sources of old stock that might be available although I am sure there are forgotten boxes of it stashed away on dusty shelves somewhere.

It is my understanding that it contained some sort of polishing agent along with a high temperature lubricant, and probably more. Perhaps a compound made with Timesaver and hard grease would make a suitable substitute with currently available materials.

I think I know where some hot box coolant is...what's the exact plan for it however?

Russ, The Timesaver product is intriguing, I’ll likely order some to try out.

Pegasuspinto,

It would be used as intended. Also trying to build up spares to my one small box. And determine what is still available or comparable.

From the "for all it's worth" file. During my time in the early days of the Grand Canyon Railway, we had a retired UP carman. He always carried a case of STP with him as a replacement for the hot box coolant, which even then was hard to find. I saw it used once with a hot box and it got the car back to town. Probably not good for a long distance, but in this case, it did the job.

MD Ramsey