It is currently Sat Aug 15, 2020 1:20 pm

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 22 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: Milwaukee Pullman Camp Grant
PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2007 9:37 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 8:50 am
Posts: 489
Location: Columbia, MD
The name "Camp Grant" brings back family memories. My father was discharged at Camp Grant in November, 1945.


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Milwaukee Pullman Camp Grant
PostPosted: Fri Jun 12, 2020 12:13 am 

Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2004 12:37 pm
Posts: 441
Location: Missoula MT
That sister car, sitting off its trucks, was long a resident on the East Side of Bozeman Pass, visible from I-90. It has migrated to Harlowton and is displayed in front of the former Milwaukee Road depot there. I will post a Facebook link (Sorry): https://www.facebook.com/MilwaukeeRRMus ... ns&__xts__[0]=68.ARAEPcjlpTNDW_LF_k8U2I0txNiHKoFyvk-wakbsvcesnzvg9aUMgi_-8SwRCCyud0RmRjzPOYvrLrdvqgK9GObMdxUvT4sR4KojiyhEbUXXsuxkE831nfaKTfIlKTQKdrabc4ZDn80A1XaVJXMxyHj_Gb3sGbrN8GYp2w5ITuZ77M7SVWdoQvs6GheS74L6njlFgvn4ZaXESO18-Z4hUuU0dNCS0XWaqeLq8opSTZoWC47HQSyCpRRPITEbVisDyt-tKjgbNXFkIKLVPdccF1mGqchFTxr5q9SbrcBumOPcNsIS_tVIQUvlyME6VlcV8lQStZP6v2U1fPCEYjtAABuw9L3uoZykcn1U_BjM9arMdWQfoy6k3DaTCfz3akSIZjmtw5iisJbjiQJ9QOYFDeWla7aZ7iIFO_Gdi2MOHxhbweI_B-MJT5zQNIy_HYFvPAA-l-GduoodYA

This is the former Camp Riley?

Michael Seitz
Missoula MT


hytwr1 wrote:
Brian Norden wrote:
The name CAMP GRANT does not show up as a Pullman heavyweight. It is not among the heavyweight Plan 2585D (10sec-1DRm-2Cmpt) from 1921 that were named after military camps.

As of 1915 the Milwaukee Road was operating its own sleeping cars, sometimes in a pool with Pullman on through routes. At sometime later it went over to the Pullman Company for sleeping cars.

Brian Norden


It's original name as a 12-1 was "Harlowton" built in 1910 Pullman Lot 3787 Plan 2477-C for MILW to a non-Pullman design. They used more structural steel than Pullman was using at that time.

The Camp Grant name came after conversion to a parlor/solarium car in 1931(?).

The MRHA guys say there is a sister car on a ranch in Montana, minus its trucks.

Bill


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Milwaukee Pullman Camp Grant
PostPosted: Fri Jun 12, 2020 12:19 pm 

Joined: Wed Aug 25, 2004 4:18 pm
Posts: 495
Location: Illinois
To answer the post above: this does appear to be the car that was on the ranch for many years, in view of the Montana Rail Link line. A good save by the museum of a rare item.

Reminiscing on the Camp Grant: this car was supposedly on the last train over the MILW western extension before it was abandoned. I don't know if that is true or not.

The Camp Grant was purchased in the mid-1980s by a member of the Bluewater Michigan Chapter NRHS, with vague plans to restore it to restoration and use by Bluewater. The car then deteriorated for another 15 years in Bluewater's yards in Pontiac and Saginaw, to the point where it was falling apart. IRM agreed to take it in a donation. About 1999 it departed for Union. I think other groups looked at the car, but it was ultimately scrapped as it was not repairable. The car was already in poor shape when acquired in the 1980s, and was a hodge-podge of different construction methods and rebuilds.

Chris.


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Milwaukee Pullman Camp Grant
PostPosted: Thu Jun 18, 2020 7:37 pm 

Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2016 10:40 pm
Posts: 268
Location: San Francisco, CA
Brian and others,
Is not the heavyweight Lake City at IRM a Pullman sleeper built for the Milwaukee Road?

It was beautifully restored by a private owner before arriving at Union?

I remember an article about it in Rail & Wire several years ago.

Ted Miles, IRM Member


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Milwaukee Pullman Camp Grant
PostPosted: Fri Jun 19, 2020 8:08 pm 

Joined: Thu Feb 03, 2005 9:32 pm
Posts: 305
The Harlowtown was rebuilt by The Milwaukee Shops from a Pullman sleeper, then to Camp Grant, then again to Terre Haute, finally as MOW car X-830. She had a kitchen, dining room and Solarium lounge.
As a MOW car most of the kitchen and walls were torn out. Two oil fired caboose stove stacks were cut through the beautiful inlaid ceilings and the interior was sprayed over with white paint.

The Coast out in Montana is the last survivor from this set. I believe at least 4 were built for The Olympian and it also was saved by becoming a MOW car. If they are lucky there is still some Zebra and other exotic wood veneer under that white paint.
Lost it's original name but it became Camp Randal. then Coast, finally retired as work car X-420.

We (The IRM) did save some of the Camp Grant's wall panels that had not been either destroyed by water or fire.


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Milwaukee Pullman Camp Grant
PostPosted: Fri Jun 19, 2020 8:32 pm 

Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2004 12:37 pm
Posts: 441
Location: Missoula MT
When I saw the Coast 38 years ago (1982 at the White Sulphur Springs and Yellowstone Park Railroad in White Sulphur Spring MT) the Solarium still had the wood paneling intact and not painted over. Most of the rest of the car was white and the kitchette area was painted in yellow. I have no idea how the car has fared in the intervening years. Dry weather and relative isolation in the post Milwaukee era has probably done much to preserve the car.

Michael Seitz
Missoula MT


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Milwaukee Pullman Camp Grant
PostPosted: Sat Jul 11, 2020 3:09 am 
User avatar

Joined: Mon Aug 05, 2013 2:42 am
Posts: 1857
Location: Seattle, WA - Land of Coffee
ted66 wrote:
Is not the heavyweight Lake City at IRM a Pullman sleeper built for the Milwaukee Road?


I don't have MILW records to reference, and because these cars were always RR-owned, not Pullman-owned-and-leased, the usual sources of Barger, Wayner, Kratville, and Madden don't have entries for these, but this is what I do have...

There were 7 of these cars built by Pullman in 1915 in Lot #4329 to Plan #2870 with 6 sections and a single compartment, with various names before later being renamed into the Lake-series, and the Lake City now in the IRM collection was apparently Lake Andes for a time (not sure if the other 6 were also renamed twice). Apparently the Lake City is the last survivor from that Lot.

As for the Camp-series cars, again, I have incomplete information, and the only note I will add is that the Camp Randal/Coast now in Harlowton was originally the 12-1 sleeper Madison, from the same Lot and Plan as the Camp Grant/Terre Haute scrapped in 2009 at IRM (which was originally the 12-1 sleeper Harlowton as previously posted).

An additional note should be made that there is an unknown lightweight business car in Madison which is painted in faux-UP/MILW Armour Yellow and named Camp Randall (note the difference in spelling): http://rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=1372077

It should also be noted that the White Sulphur Springs & Yellowstone Park RY had at least 2 other cars; a CN coach, and a NP coach (rebuilt from an excess Pullman heavyweight parlor in the early 1940's).

_________________
Ted Brumberg


Offline
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 22 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]


 Who is online

Users browsing this forum: alzubal, Google [Bot], Paul D and 50 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to: