What do you want us to do? It's not owned by a non-profit organization; we can't buy "shares" in it; there's no "Friends of 614" to volunteer with; most of us can't really badger state legislators to support whatever transpires........ In a sense, this is little different from UP 4014. Get the bleachers, pass the popcorn............

I'll consider whatever is offered in Virginia as will lots of other fans, and Lord knows if I were back East I'd be riding and/or chasing 2102 trips whenever I could, knowing damned well that this is yet another "one brief shining moment" Camelot of big steam, where all we have to do is see one individual pass away, and..................

Well, we COULD be appreciative of the fact that the owners of these locomotives don't have their hands out. There certainly is an abundance of worthy causes needing our support and asking us to contribute, and they will benefit from not having these two competing with them. And, while we're at it, many smaller locomotive restorations being financed by individuals likewise benefit the cause, although in a much less spectacular fashion.

Most of these privately financed projects are not being done to glorify anybody or for the train crews to get their jollies. In general they are run by folks who have already had their great adventures in life, and want to do something for the next generation.

What speed was 611 doing on these runs?

What's the magic speed for it to be considered "Mainline"?

I'm not sure what maximum speed 611 operates at on these excursions, but after the Great Swamp derailment the NS had a 40 mph speed restriction on their trips, which were considered mainline. I would consider a mainline speed to be at least somewhere around there.

John

If you need to hit 40 you'll have to ride Grand Canyon or Illinois Railway Museum on an Interurban (only Interurbans are permitted at 40 - steam and diesel trains have a limit of 30).

Anywhere else?

Well I guess " mainline steam " has more than 1 definition.

To me it's very straight forward, mainline steam = no diesel(s) in the consist, track speed of at least 60 mph, open window and a/c coaches plus 1st. class seating choices, real multiple speed photo runbys, cab ride raffle tickets, realistic schedule reliably run, reasonable prices.

That to me is the " Full Monty" I hope someday to again see available.

Hope springs eternal. Ross Rowland

That would mean very few, if any, mainline experiences since the 90s. The R & N has many but not all of these characteristics, except multiple runbys and cab rides. I'm not sure 60 could be reached on that route, with trains the length they operate and the grades they run over. But I think they do reach near 40 in certain sections of the trip. I would consider that a mainline operation.

John

Whenever I'm in doubt as to the definition of a term, I go back to the RULEBOOK. Consulting the definition section of the Consolidated Code of Operating Rules, there are no entries for either "mainline steam", "mainline", or "main line". The closest thing I found is:

"Main Track --- A track, other than an auxiliary track, extending through yards and between stations, upon which trains are operated by timetable or train order, or both, or the use of which is governed by block signals."

Period.

I would think Reading & Northern 2102 could be turned loose at fairly high speed, IF they can find a stretch of railroad that would allow it. She did run at 40-50 mph or so here and there on Conrail mains back in the late 1980s, but they were sane enough not to push speed limits with a "freight engine" that isn't as well-balanced, etc. as 611 and 614 are, and with a CR supervisor/pilot in the cab with them.

A reminder that 611, in deference to its high center of gravity, also had a speed restriction of 10 MPH below any curve restrictions. This made for fast running on the former SR mains, but some sedate speeds in former N&W coal country.

I personally clocked a late-running 614 in southwestern Pa. in July 1981 at somewhat over its official 55mph limit at night as best as one could with not-necessarily-accurate mileposts, and personally paced 611 by car, also making up time, at over 55 mph on a back road in northeastern Pa. on former NKP territory in the late 1980s...... but neither compares to the 80+ mph running I enjoyed on the North Wales Coast Line of British Rail in 1991 behind both an LNER A4 and a LNER V2...........

Well technically "Mainline Steam" is steam on a legit, mainline railroad. That would be UP, BNSF, NS, the Metra lines that 765 has operated on, and CSX if they ever allowed it. Also Canadian Pacific.

Now if we want to say "Mainline Steam Experience" it gets a bit more debatable. Is it the size of the locomotive, the speed of the train, length of the route, etc.

Reading Company had a timetable speed limit of 65 mph for T-1's. However in Ramble service I clocked both 2100 and 2124 at 75 on the New York Branch (Hamilton watch; numbered cat poles in lieu of mileposts.) I never rode behind 2102 there but I'm sure it was equally capable as the locomotive built one bay away. Only the FP7's were allowed speeds in excess of 65 mph until the GP30's (71 mph) and the the FP7's needed this speed to keep the Crusader and Wall Street on time.

Main Line is not defined in the Rule Book.

Reading Company had one Main Line, from Philadelphia to Pottsville. Speed limit was 60 mph. Everything else was a Branch. RBMN has part of the RDG Main Line and 2102 on a Jim Thorpe train runs on it.

PRR had several Main Lines; Main Line New York to Philadelphia; Main Line Philadelphia to Washingtom; Main Line Philadelphia to Pittsburgh. The Main Line Phila to Pgh had a speed limit of 35 mph between Altoona and Gallitzin: 9 degree curves on a 1.8% grade might have had something to do with it.

Phil Mulligan

We could argue all week on what constitutes "mainline running" for steam.

My arbitrary standard:
Could Amtrak detour a long-distance passenger train or excursion run with passengers over the line if needed in an emergency, and maintain any semblance of time-keeping without arriving days later?

(Not that they would do so anymore; these days Amtrak will cancel a train at the sight of a snowflake, it seems......)

One interesting example in years past: ATSF 3751 ran from Los Angeles to Williams, Az. over the ATSF Transcon in the early 2000s, then returned home via the Phoenix Subdivision from Williams to a wye (now truncated) at Matthie, then west over the Arizona & California RR to Parker and Cadiz, where it rejoined the Transcon west to L.A.
The A&C is nominally a "main line railroad" with big, heavy trains, but 3751 and train were curtailed to about 30 mph over the eastern part of the line, and the western half was later described as a "Death March" at speeds as little as 10 mph in a hot desert setting with AC units failing in the heat and open Dutch doors providing little to no relief...................

The term " mainline steam" is certainly a subjective term. I've posted my definition...your mileage may vary.

I ran a good many of the 2101 powered Chessie Steam Specials ( 1977-78 ) and there was no 55 mph speed limit on them. We were governed by the speed limits on each piece of track we were running over just like every other train. While the Reading T-1's are capable of speeds in the 70's they ride a LOT nicer around 60, trust me.

40 mph is the speed limit on the Reading & Northern.

Thanks, Ross Rowland

Earlier in this thread it was reported that the R&N speed for steam was 30 mph.

There has been some "criticism" in some quarters of how fast should a locomotive be capable of to run on a Class One main line. Our 2-10-2 was timetable restricted by the Southern Pacific at 55 MPH, and as I have explained on another forum, there is video evidence of them running that fast in regular service. That should be fast enough for anybody. With that said, if you have the locomotive, the track profile, insurance requirements, railroad permission, and ability to make higher speeds, more power to you.. Steam operating in the current environment should be enjoyed at whatever speed it is allowed to run. We've heard, seen, and participated in slugfests much slower than "mainline speed", and as far as I know, no one complained about it, but enjoyed the show.