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 Post subject: Re: Railroad museum safety (close clearance) 2101 incident
PostPosted: Fri Oct 27, 2023 11:27 am 

Joined: Sun Sep 05, 2004 9:48 am
Posts: 1606
Location: Byers, Colorado
Meghan wrote:
The question was how he would feel about recommending a suspension or dismissal when he knew that it would probably cause financial hardship to a family. His response was that he thought it sucked but that it was preferable to knocking on that same family's door to tell them that the employee was never coming home. There is a often a very fine line between the two outcomes


EXCELLENT POINT. An ounce of prevention is worth tons of cure...

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 Post subject: Re: Railroad museum safaety (close clearance) 2101 incident
PostPosted: Fri Oct 27, 2023 12:41 pm 

Joined: Thu May 24, 2012 1:37 pm
Posts: 2301
The thing that 'got' me about large sections of that video was the number of people in safety vests meandering around, in and out of frame, often with perplexed or befuddled expressions. Professional moves and lifts have everyone accounted for, clear of any even remotely dangerous exposure until actually needed to do something required. Even a museum moving with its own equipment on its own property ought to consider having logistics for their personnel as well.

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 Post subject: Re: Railroad museum safaety (close clearance) 2101 incident
PostPosted: Fri Oct 27, 2023 11:24 pm 

Joined: Fri Dec 22, 2017 6:47 pm
Posts: 1423
Location: Philadelphia, PA
My bad. I was was carried away by explaining how a steam engine cab can whack something it would clear on tangent track.

Incidentally, if the bent handrail is loose or has less than 2" clearance all around, it's out of compliance and must be repaired before the car can be used.

Now as to the cast of 1000's in hi-vis vests. They're all accidents waiting to happen. The actual operating crew can't possibly keep track of all those buffs. Could be they were watching for one of the buffs in the wrong place and weren't paying attetion to 2101 not clearing the coach.

I would limit people other than those actually working the move to, say, 45 feet of any moving equipment. Maybe more if some of them appear unusually frisky.

Phil Mulligan


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 Post subject: Re: Railroad museum safaety (close clearance) 2101 incident
PostPosted: Sat Oct 28, 2023 12:26 am 

Joined: Thu Oct 24, 2019 11:05 pm
Posts: 145
While the incident happened with AFT 1 being pulled back from its resting place - remember the ConRail Butthead came by the incident location without incident to couple up to AFT 1.

Obviously AFT 1 was wider than the ConRail butthead.


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 Post subject: Re: Railroad museum safaety (close clearance) 2101 incident
PostPosted: Sat Oct 28, 2023 1:27 pm 

Joined: Thu Aug 26, 2004 2:50 pm
Posts: 2815
Location: Northern Illinois
Overmod wrote:
The thing that 'got' me about large sections of that video was the number of people in safety vests meandering around, in and out of frame, often with perplexed or befuddled expressions...


I think the foamers think those things work like bullet-proof vests and will magically protect them from harm... no further thought needed.

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Dennis Storzek


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 Post subject: Re: Railroad museum safaety (close clearance) 2101 incident
PostPosted: Sat Oct 28, 2023 2:02 pm 

Joined: Thu May 24, 2012 1:37 pm
Posts: 2301
Quote:
"Obviously AFT 1 was wider than the ConRail butthead."
It's not that the switcher was narrower; it's that the long rigid wheelbase and longer rigid chassis of the locomotive swung over further. Something easy to predict... with 20/20 hindsignt.

I would expect the switcher to have a bit more 'swing' at that location compared to its clearance on 'level tangent track' -- but evidently not enough to foul, either way, and perhaps more significantly not enough to tip the crew off to what was going to be happening between the tender and locomotive at the drawbar... not something, in my opinion, the switcher crew could have clearly seen from their cab.

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 Post subject: Re: Railroad museum safaety (close clearance) 2101 incident
PostPosted: Sat Oct 28, 2023 2:56 pm 

Joined: Thu Aug 26, 2004 2:50 pm
Posts: 2815
Location: Northern Illinois
I still recall switching with that 0-6-0 we used to run at IRM years ago... I'd line the switch for the diverging route, stand on the head ties to catch the cab ladder, climb all the way to the deck and notice we were still going straight. I had time enough to question myself, "Shoot, did I forget to line the switch?" when the scenery out the front cab windows would suddenly slide sideways as the engine finally responded to the curve. That's the same effect we're talking about here.

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 Post subject: Re: Railroad museum safaety (close clearance) 2101 incident
PostPosted: Sat Oct 28, 2023 5:28 pm 

Joined: Sun Sep 05, 2004 9:48 am
Posts: 1606
Location: Byers, Colorado
Fellas, They're called goats not just because they butt the cuts of cars like a billy goat, but because they can go around corners. The thing is, engineers can't see around corners, especially since their seat is right even with the truck centers, which puts their window about over the ends of the ties. In this case, the fireman's side had the movement in sight, plus the engineer had that humongous T-1 tender blocking his view of the clearance in question --- THAT'S WHY WE USE BRAKEMEN.

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 Post subject: Re: Railroad museum safaety (close clearance) 2101 incident
PostPosted: Mon Oct 30, 2023 9:36 am 

Joined: Wed Jan 26, 2022 11:23 am
Posts: 59
Dennis Storzek wrote:
Overmod wrote:
The thing that 'got' me about large sections of that video was the number of people in safety vests meandering around, in and out of frame, often with perplexed or befuddled expressions...


I think the foamers think those things work like bullet-proof vests and will magically protect them from harm... no further thought needed.


I would place the blame solely on the B&O Museum. Those extra folks in vests aren't buffs and foamers who came on off the street; they're almost certainly museum members and volunteers. And that's fine, but someone should have spoken up to keep them well back from what's happening. Could you imagine a crowd lingering around like this at, say, IRM? Nope, me neither.


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