Tweetsie Railroad's No. 190, newly delivered from Baldwin at Skagway, Alaska in 1943. The US Army Transportation Corps was operating the White Pass & Yukon at the time. Cab was later raised by Tweetsie for more interior headroom and it trails a tender from one of the WP&Y older engines.

http://www.whitepassfan.net/whitepass/home/pub/images/steam/190-200/jl-img-005_steam_190_medium.jpg
ryarger@rypn.org

On display at Skagway. Looks like they have removed the lagging at least.

http://www.whitepassfan.net/whitepass/home/pub/images/steam/190-200/P1010053_195_sk_2003-05-31_medium.jpg
ryarger@rypn.org

Bob,

Actually her tender is from one of the Sumpter Valley locomotives that went north. Steam locomotives 19 and 20 were sold to the White Pass & Yukon, but their tenders were retained for use with the newly arrived ex-Uintah articulateds. So the 19 and 20 were shipped with tenders from the 18 and 50, both wood burning Baldwins. The engines kept those for a time and then recieved larger 190 class tenders. When the 190 went to the Tweetsie she ended up with the SVRy tender from the 50, while the SVRy engines retained the 190 class ones. It's kinda confusing.

Thanks, Taylor

Sumpter Valley Railway
thrush@smt-net.com

> Bob,

> Actually her tender is from one of the
> Sumpter Valley locomotives that went north.
... It's kinda confusing.
> Thanks, Taylor

Taylor,
Yes, that's confusing. Are you saying that the tender in the picture Bob posted of 190,
http://www.whitepassfan.net/whitepass/h ... medium.jpg
is actually a SVRy tender? Or do you mean the tender behind 190 today at Tweetsie?
Mike

mike211@yknet.ca

The tender currently at Tweetsie is the former SV 50 tender. The former SV 2-8-2s used tenders from the retired 190 class while in Alaska. SV No. 19 was reunited with its original Alco tender on the reborn SV line, after that tender was returned from Guatemala, where it and its mate had gone with the SV 2-6-6-2s. The SV No. 50 locomotive, a 4-6-0, went to Peru and ran there into the 1970s, but all efforts to find it have failed in recent years, so it is presumed scrapped. Peru is said not to have a complete steel mill, but does have a scrap melting facility, and it may have ended up there. I'm told the 190 class tenders that came back down to Oregon with the two ex-SV 2-8-2s have returned to Skagway.

> Taylor,
> Yes, that's confusing. Are you saying that
> the tender in the picture Bob posted of 190,
>
> http://www.whitepassfan.net/whitepass/h ... medium.jpg
> is actually a SVRy tender? Or do you mean
> the tender behind 190 today at Tweetsie?
> Mike


http://www.mindspring.com/~jeffpo/tweetsie.htm
ryarger@rypn.org

> The tender currently at Tweetsie is the
> former SV 50 tender. The former SV 2-8-2s
> used tenders from the retired 190 class
> while in Alaska. SV No. 19 was reunited with
> its original Alco tender on the reborn SV
> line, after that tender was returned from
> Guatemala, where it and its mate had gone
> with the SV 2-6-6-2s. The SV No. 50
> locomotive, a 4-6-0, went to Peru and ran
> there into the 1970s, but all efforts to
> find it have failed in recent years, so it
> is presumed scrapped. Peru is said not to
> have a complete steel mill, but does have a
> scrap melting facility, and it may have
> ended up there. I'm told the 190 class
> tenders that came back down to Oregon with
> the two ex-SV 2-8-2s have returned to
> Skagway.
Please stop confusing me with facts.

> The tender currently at Tweetsie is the
> former SV 50 tender. The former SV 2-8-2s
> used tenders from the retired 190 class
> while in Alaska.

Thanks Bob, Those tenders have a richer history than the locomotives.

The 190s were designed for flat country like India [where the order was headed before the WP&YR and QRy got some] so they had large tenders. However since the 190s could only pull about 90 tons on the hill vs 160 tons with the ex SVRy 80 and 81, they switched the lighter tenders to the 190s and the bigger tenders to the 80s and 70 series which could pull 170 tons up the hill.

> I'm told the 190 class
> tenders that came back down to Oregon with
> the two ex-SV 2-8-2s have returned to
> Skagway.

What is the source of this info? I didn't see them when I was in Skagway last summer, but then perhaps I didn't look hard enough.

Mike

mike211@yknet.ca

Mike,

When the White Pass was really getting back into steam, they contacted us about buying back the two 190 class tenders since we had the originals back from Guatemala. So in the end we traded them the tenders for some freight equipment, I believe the 61 tankcar and such arrived at that time. And to the best of my knowledge the tenders are stored at Carcross with a lot of the rest of the freight car fleet.

Thanks, Taylor

Sumpter Valley Railway
thrush@smt-net.com

> the tenders are stored at Carcross with a lot of > > the rest of the freight car fleet.
> Thanks, Taylor

There are two tender frames and one body on the line in Carcross. Those may be the ones.

Mike


mike211@yknet.ca

The two tender under frames and the one tank located in Carcross are the ones that came back from SVRY. The second tank was put behind the # 73 to replace the dented that it was operating with.The dented tank is sitting on a flat car in the Skagway yard.

greenchili@tds.net

There has been a lot of equipment shuffled back and forth between the SVRy and WP&Y, for 2 railroads so far apart geograpically.
The first exchange that I have heard of was not of equipment but of consulting. Legend has it at SVRy that in the late 30's when the WP&Y was preparing to order the 70 class engines, SVRy's master mechanic was hired to consult in their design. I'd love to know if their are any WP&Y officianados that can confirm this.
The second transaction that I know of was the sale of SVRy 19 and 20 with the Baldwin tenders to WP&Y. Next was probably the tranfer of SVRy cabeese 3 and 4 to the army for use on the WP&Y. I guess some of the SVRy ACF pass equipment was also sold to the army. I think more SVRy pass. equipment was sold about 1947 along with some flat cars to the WP&Y.
Then you have the return of 19 and 20 in 1977? and the purchase of the rotary which SVRR eventually sold to some folks in Breckinridge Co. Did SVRR get any other equipment at this time? When did the 7 EBT hoppers come down from the WP&Y to SVRR? When did the 2 container flats come to SVRR? When did SVRR get caboose 3 back? Similarly when did SVRR get tank car 61? I think there was some deal in which SVRR bought about 75 freight car trucks from the WP&Y. I was told that some of the trucks went to the C&TS and elswhere in Colorado, where I am not sure, and that the 61 tank car may have been part of this trade, like maybe it actually went to the C&TS then to SVRR in exchange for trucks?
Then somewhere in all this trading, there is the WP&Y 1 lunger speeder, with a bunch of extra speeder engines and part. I assume these came with one of these 2 or 3 different deals. Then as stated in the other posts on this thread, there was the return of the 190 tenders back north. Very confusing to say the least.


http://www.svry.com
jamesbane@hotmail.com

#190's tender is indeed a Sumpter Valley like stated in previous post's. We still have a set of trucks from the Sumpter Valley RR in our bone yard. They are exactly the same as our EBT Vulcan Trucks. Now the #192 which came south in 1961 had the other Sumpter Valley tender. That tender was scraped at Dollywood sometime in the early 1980's. #192 now pulls a #190-class tender and the same goes for #70.

I have always wondered where #190's original tender ended up. Anyone got any ideas, i know its been 60 years since they were built. Would there be any idenifing marks on them to signify which engine they were assigned too?

One other question is there any pics of #190 after the war running with the White Pass logos on either tender.



http://www.tweetsie.com

tssmith@boone.net

> The second transaction that I know of was
> the sale of SVRy 19 and 20 with the Baldwin
> tenders to WP&Y. Next was probably the
> tranfer of SVRy cabeese 3 and 4 to the army
> for use on the WP&Y. I guess some of the
> SVRy ACF pass equipment was also sold to the
> army. I think more SVRy pass. equipment was
> sold about 1947 along with some flat cars to
> the WP&Y.

The Sumpter Valley sold the 2-8-2's in 1941 to the White Pass. The Military bought two cabooses and the two 1918 ACF combines in 1943. Then the two ACF coaches and one of the shorty 1918 RPOs were sold in 1947 to the White Pass.

I have a listing of ten flat cars going from the Sumpter Valley to the USArmy in 1942.

Hope this helps.

Brian Norden

> any pics of #190 after the war running with the White Pass logos on either tender.

Here's one of 192 in Carcross in the late 40s.


mike211@yknet.ca

Hey Bret,

If you back through the SVRy newsletters and read the “Yard Tour” articles, you will get many answers to your questions. The article about Tankcar #61 & #100 addresses the trade with the White with the White Pass. Give them a read.

> There has been a lot of equipment shuffled
> back and forth between the SVRy and
> WP&Y, for 2 railroads so far apart
> geograpically.
> The first exchange that I have heard of was
> not of equipment but of consulting. Legend
> has it at SVRy that in the late 30's when
> the WP&Y was preparing to order the 70
> class engines, SVRy's master mechanic was
> hired to consult in their design. I'd love
> to know if their are any WP&Y
> officianados that can confirm this.
> The second transaction that I know of was
> the sale of SVRy 19 and 20 with the Baldwin
> tenders to WP&Y. Next was probably the
> tranfer of SVRy cabeese 3 and 4 to the army
> for use on the WP&Y. I guess some of the
> SVRy ACF pass equipment was also sold to the
> army. I think more SVRy pass. equipment was
> sold about 1947 along with some flat cars to
> the WP&Y.
> Then you have the return of 19 and 20 in
> 1977? and the purchase of the rotary which
> SVRR eventually sold to some folks in
> Breckinridge Co. Did SVRR get any other
> equipment at this time? When did the 7 EBT
> hoppers come down from the WP&Y to SVRR?
> When did the 2 container flats come to SVRR?
> When did SVRR get caboose 3 back? Similarly
> when did SVRR get tank car 61? I think there
> was some deal in which SVRR bought about 75
> freight car trucks from the WP&Y. I was
> told that some of the trucks went to the
> C&TS and elswhere in Colorado, where I
> am not sure, and that the 61 tank car may
> have been part of this trade, like maybe it
> actually went to the C&TS then to SVRR
> in exchange for trucks?
> Then somewhere in all this trading, there is
> the WP&Y 1 lunger speeder, with a bunch
> of extra speeder engines and part. I assume
> these came with one of these 2 or 3
> different deals. Then as stated in the other
> posts on this thread, there was the return
> of the 190 tenders back north. Very
> confusing to say the least.


svwiper@hotmail.com