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 Post subject: Re: Surviving Pullman Heavyweight Sleeping Cars
PostPosted: Fri Jul 25, 2025 5:26 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 1:51 pm
Posts: 12152
Location: Somewhere east of Prescott, AZ along the old Santa Fe "Prescott & Eastern"
Rainier Rails wrote:
Update:
On Tuesday, July 7th, 2020, 2nd Post on Page #41, Rainier Rails wrote:
On Friday, October 1st, 2010, 8th Post on Page #2, Newriver400 wrote:
Glen Ayr was in Jacksonville (sold recently to AC&W in North Carolina)
On Monday, January 6th, 2014, 10th Post on Page #3, Rainier Rails wrote:
28. Glen Ayr (Lot #6182, Plan #3523C, 1928, 6C-3DR, ACL)--sold to ACL (1948) to pvt. owner (Jacksonville) to AC&W
Additional Info:

This car was in the collection of the North Florida RY Museum before the sale to the AC&W. The museum's website still lists the car despite the sale to AC&W: http://www.nfrm.org/glen_ayr.htm and states that the car was donated by SBD to the NRHS North Florida Chapter in 1986.

There was some question last year in the Passenger Car List group on GroupsIO if the car was still at the museum. The most recent Google street view imagery shows the other equipment in the museum's collection, but the Glen Ayr isn't visible, so it would seem it has indeed left Jacksonville for NC.
This car was donated by the AC&W to the Pullman National Historic Park in 2023. (Likely as a result of AC&W acquiring another 6-3, the Glen Summit.)


https://www.trains.com/trn/news-reviews ... onal-park/

Quote:
The Glen Ayr, an all-steel Pullman heavyweight sleeper, has [been] donated by Robert Menzies from the railway’s collection of historic Pullman cars. It is the first railcar donated to the Foundation and the National Park, which has been seeking to display equipment built at the Pullman factory. Built for the Chicago & North Western Railroad, the Glen Ayr operated on the North Western Limited between Chicago and the Twin Cities. In 1948, it was sold to the Atlantic Coast Line Railroad, which used it in Florida service during periods of heavy winter demand. It was eventually acquired by the Aberdeen Carolina & Western and has been stored in Jacksonville, Fla.

“The Glen Ayr exemplifies the artistry and engineering of the Pullman Co. at its peak,” Joseph C. Szabo, Foundation president emeritus and former Federal Railroad Administration administrator, said in a press release. “Owning this car before it risks being lost to time is a milestone achievement for both HPF and our partners in the NPS and Illinois Department of Natural Resources.” Szabo leads the interagency Railcar Working Group, established by the NPBS and IDNR to acquire significant Pullman cars for inclusion in future exhibits.

It will take several years to create an appropriate method to display the Glen Ayr, the Foundation says. But it calls the acquisition “an essential step toward building a vibrant visitor experience that centers on the contributions of Pullman workers and the evolution of railroad travel.” Said Robert Montgomery, the Foundation’s Executive Director, “Each railcar we secure is a step closer to honoring the legacy of Pullman Porters, craftsmen, and passengers whose lives intersected in these rolling landmarks.”


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 Post subject: Re: Surviving Pullman Heavyweight Sleeping Cars
PostPosted: Fri Aug 01, 2025 1:58 am 

Joined: Wed Jul 13, 2011 8:20 am
Posts: 25
"This car was donated by the AC&W to the Pullman National Historic Park in 2023. (Likely as a result of AC&W acquiring another 6-3, the Glen Summit.)"

The GLEN AYR was not donated to the Pullman National Historical Park - it was donated to the Historic Pullman Foundation. The Foundation is the not-for-profit partner of the Pullman National Park and the car will eventually be a part of the collection of cars to be displayed at the Pullman National Park. The car was placed back on the rails on July 31st at the Railroading Heritage of Midwest America facility at Silvis, IL. It will remain there in storage until the restoration project is underway.

There are a lot of exciting things and exciting railroad cars that are in the works for the Park at the former Pullman Car Works property. I would invite and encourage everyone that is interested in railroading history, particularly that of the Pullman Company to support these efforts through membership in the Historic Pullman Foundation! https://www.pullmanil.org/


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 Post subject: Re: Surviving Pullman Heavyweight Sleeping Cars
PostPosted: Wed Aug 13, 2025 3:48 am 
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Location: Seattle, WA - Land of Coffee
Update:
On Tuesday, January 7th, 2014, 12th Post on Page #5, Rainier Rails wrote:
150. White Cloud (Lot #4574, Plan #4046A, 1920/36, 12S-2DB, NYC, ex-Fingal)--sold to P&LE (1948) resold to Henry Long-Irl Daffin-Max Solomon and rebuilt to 6S-2DB-buffet lounge as the Pequea Valley (circa 1958-1959) stored in Lancaster, PA, then moved to Strasburg Rail Road (circa 1962) resold to Ralph Hostetter (circa 1985-1986??) moved to storage on Octoraro Railway (circa 1985-1986??) resold to Harlansburg Station Transportation Museum, Harlansburg, PA (unknown date)
On Thursday, January 9th, 2014, 5th Post on Page #7, Rainier Rails wrote:
190. James Fenimore Cooper (Lot #6220, Plan #3410B, 1929, 12S-1DR, PRR)--sold to PRR #8823 (1948) to MofW #473713 (1959) resold to unknown/private owner, Niles, OH (unknown date) resold to Harlansburg Station Transportation Museum, Harlansburg, PA (1984)
As posted both here in another thread, as well as in groups on Facebook, the Harlansburg collection has now been listed for sale, including all four cars on-site (these two heavyweights, and two ex-AT&SF lightweight chairs that were used in PC/NJDOT commuter service).

Thread on the sale started the other day by ADM IV: https://www.rypn.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=48918

Additional ownership and approximate date info for the White Cloud, which had not been included for said car in this thread before, was found via a quick search in two old threads by K.R. Bell, and therefore were added to my quotes/summary above (threads linked below):

https://www.rypn.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=2607

https://www.rypn.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=4127

Sources:

1. "The Complete Roster of Heavyweight Pullman Cars" by Robert J. Wayner (Wayner Publications, 1985)

2. "Passenger Car Catalog: Pullman Operated Equipment, 1912-1949" by William W. Kratville (Kratville Publications, 1968)

3. Tom Madden's Pullman Project CCR database: http://pullmanproject.com/Database.htm

_________________
Additions and corrections are welcome. Thanks in advance.

_________________
Ted Brumberg


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 Post subject: Re: Surviving Pullman Heavyweight Sleeping Cars
PostPosted: Sat Jan 31, 2026 7:34 pm 

Joined: Sat Oct 17, 2015 5:55 pm
Posts: 2876
Rainier Rails wrote:
On Tuesday, May 7th, 2019, 4th Post on Page #40, Rainier Rails wrote:
100. Embassy (Lot #6065, Plan #3957B, 4/27, 26 seat-1DR, Ambassador) to WAB (12/31/45), platform enclosed? (see end of car's history) and renamed City of Wabash (with 37? seats) in 5/54 (Plan #3957J), sold 1962 to James Seacrest-Nebraska RR Historical Society (unsure if Mr. Seacrest was a member of the NERHS or if he later resold the car to them), resold at unknown date to Fr. Steve Sandknop-Missouri, Santa Fe & Western RY Co. San Esteban (previously incorrectly listed as San Steban), Sandknop passed away 1976, car later seized by AT&SF due to lack of car storage payments by Sandknop family, resold at unknown date to Thomas Frawley as #SPRMX1 Embassy, resold circa 1983 to Keokuk Junction RY #1 Chief Keokuck [sic] (#800014) (unsure if #SPRMX1 was applied under ownership by Mr. Frawley or the KJRY), leased to GCRY (date range unknown), resold 2006 to NOPB, rebuilt 2008 by P. Messina to diner Louisiana, returned to open platform (if it had been enclosed, as Mr. Holzmeier indicated it may have always remained an open platform).


The nee-Embassy has reportedly been acquired by the Iowa Northern RY and renamed to Shell Rock River.

https://www.trainorders.com/discussion/read.php?1,5559200

http://rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=5854064

(I want to say I have also seen mention of the current status of one of the other ex-WAB parlors from the NOPB, but I'd have to do some looking, or I may be incorrect in my recall.)

_________________
Additions and corrections are welcome. Thanks in advance.


This photo showed up on facebook, the car was moved to the Manly Jct. Railroad Museum (Iowa) this week. https://www.facebook.com/groups/1404731 ... 4702309661


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 Post subject: Re: Surviving Pullman Heavyweight Sleeping Cars
PostPosted: Wed Mar 25, 2026 10:12 pm 

Joined: Sat Oct 17, 2015 5:55 pm
Posts: 2876
Rainier Rails wrote:
Mystery Solved:

On Wednesday, January 22nd, 2014, 13th Post on Page #12, Rainier Rails wrote:
Mystery Cars:

271. PC #27042--according to Jerry LaBoda's website, this is a Plan #3989 8S-buf-sol-lng-obs--does anybody know the history of this car??--see here: http://rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=3156056 (William Wilson photo)
On Sunday, January 12th, 2014, 12th Post on Page #9, Rainier Rails wrote:
I wonder...

Besides SOU #2523 Glen Summit, Glen Saddell (still pending), PRR #8836 John Greenleaf Whittier, and Palm Lane (on long term lease from CNY Chapter), are there any additional heavyweight sleepers that have been acquired by Iowa Pacific/SLRG, either already listed as a survivor in this thread or otherwise??
On Sunday, January 12th, 2014, 14th Post on Page #9, jmlaboda wrote:
This is from the roster presented in the Trains magazine article, June 2013. A couple of the names don't show up in Tom Madden's Pullman Car Construction Records...

SLRG 9169 Euopolis Not its Pullman name
SLRG 9170 University Club
SLRG 9180 Country Club Not its Pullman name???
On Sunday, January 12th, 2014, 15th Post on Page #9, Rainier Rails wrote:
Thanks, Jerry, for the info on Iowa Pacific's heavyweight sleeper acquisitions!

231. University Club (Lot #6274, Plan #3989A, 1929, 8S-buf-sol-lng-obs, PRR)--sold to PRR #8629 (1948) to unknown to SLRG #9170 (201?)

232. Eupolis [sic]* (Lot #4624, Plan #2411C, 1921, 12S-1DR-1C, PRR)--sold to PRR #8706 (1948) to unknown to SLRG #9169 (201?)

*Looks like somewhere along the way an "o" got added to the spelling.

233. Anthracite Club (Lot #6274, Plan #3989U, 1929, 8S-buf-sol-lng-obs, PRR, ex-Country Club)--sold to PRR #8620 (1948) to unknown to SLRG #9180 ([color=#0080FF]201?)
On Tuesday, November 25th, 2014, 6th Post on Page #27, Rainier Rails wrote:
Using the Internet Archive, I found a cached version of the Ozark Mountain Railcar sale page of the Country Club/Anthracite Club, cached on 2/25/2009: http://web.archive.org/web/20090225075205/http://ozarkmountainrailcar.com/country_club.htm[/color]

I didn't see any evidence that the University Club or Eupolis were listed for sale on OMR, so at this point in time I'm not sure if Iowa Pacific acquired all 3 from the same owner. Can anyone provide more information? Thanks in advance!
An inquiry in the Surviving Passenger Cars group on Facebook with the same photo from 2012 of the PC #27042 resulted in answers from Jacob Carey and Charlie Poling, ID'ing it as the University Club (note the 2nd heavyweight sleeper to the right in the photo, which was also ID'ed, as the Eupolis).

So now it is known where both these cars were/are before they were acquired by IPH. With the subsequent bankruptcy, I have no clue if these cars even left Buffalo for Alamosa (or other IPH location[s]), or what their current status/location now is.

Also as a result, line item #271 is now voided, as we have yet another double entry.

231. University Club (Lot #6274, Plan #3989A, 1929, 8S-buf-sol-lng-obs, PRR)--sold to PRR #8629 (1948) to MofW #492387 (1958) to PC #27042 (1968) later sold at unknown date to unknown/private party and stored in Buffalo, later resold to SLRG #9170 (201?)

232. Eupolis (Lot #4624, Plan #2411C, 1921, 12S-1C-1DR, PRR)--sold to PRR #8706 (1948) to MofW #493658 (1960) to PC (1968) later sold at unknown date to unknown/private party and stored in Buffalo, later resold to SLRG #9169 (201?)

Sources:

1. "The Complete Roster of Heavyweight Pullman Cars" by Robert J. Wayner (Wayner Publications, 1985)

2. "Passenger Car Catalog: Pullman Operated Equipment, 1912-1949" by William W. Kratville (Kratville Publications, 1968)

3. Tom Madden's Pullman Project CCR database: http://pullmanproject.com/Database.htm

4. Surviving Passenger Cars in the United States group on Facebook

_________________
Additions and corrections are welcome. Thanks in advance.

Looks like another one saved from the IOU Pacific bankruptcy: https://www.facebook.com/groups/AOTTORC ... 7144889758
Paul Mulligan
34m
"So here is my news - I purchased the ANTHRACITE CLUB (PRR 8620) from Eric S Strohmeyer Dec 30, 2025 - the car being in Alamosa CO I was able to have Kenneth Bitten's shop team prep the car to be compliant to travel east to Topton, PA with reporting marks ALLN 8620 - to all the train watchers - take pictures when you see her in person our on the virtual rail fan cameras."


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 Post subject: Re: Surviving Pullman Heavyweight Sleeping Cars
PostPosted: Sat Mar 28, 2026 6:03 pm 

Joined: Sat Oct 17, 2015 5:55 pm
Posts: 2876
Rainier Rails wrote:
More Info & Update:

Again, while discussing the various cars owned by Reuben Darby in the Surviving Passenger Cars group, info regarding these 2 cars was posted by Maunsel White and James Corbett.

296. Glen Pond (Lot #6182, Plan #3523C/L, 1928, 6C-3DR)--retained (12/31/1948) to Reuben Darby-Darby Wood Products (1967) seized by B&O (1970) to Lake Shore Chapter NRHS as ENEX #2829 and stored at GE in Erie to Alfred K. Nippert-GATOR Rail Tours ([color=#0080FF]1980's) later to Louisiana Steam Train Association and stored (unknown date) reported by Maunsel White as having been scrapped (2020's?)
[/color][/color][/color]
Jim Corbett mentioned the Nippert ownership, which I was previously unaware of, but it does provide an answer as to how the car ended up in LASTA ownership (there is at least one other car now in the LASTA collection which they acquired from Nippert).

Jim also mentioned Nippert ownership for the following:

104. Meadow Lark (Lot #6352, Plan #3991A/B/C, 1930, 3SB-2C-1DR-buf-lng-obs-sol, Lark)--sold to NYNH&H #760 (1948) to business car #3 (1954) to Willis Barron-Ashland Court Motel, Ashland, PA (1964) to Doug Brown and stored in Gettysburg, PA (1982) to Alfred K. Nippert-GATOR Rail Tours (1980's) to Chesapeake RY Association and moved to Walkersville Southern RR, Walkersville, MD (2005)

Sources:

1. "The Complete Roster of Heavyweight Pullman Cars" by Robert J. Wayner (Wayner Publications, 1985)

2. "Passenger Car Catalog: Pullman Operated Equipment, 1912-1949" by William W. Kratville (Kratville Publications, 1968)

3. Tom Madden's Pullman Project CCR database: http://pullmanproject.com/Database.htm

4. Surviving Passenger Cars in the United States group on Facebook

_________________
Additions and corrections are welcome. Thanks in advance.


Glen Pond and Glacier are in danger in Louisiana, see the post on Classifieds: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=49172


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 Post subject: Re: Surviving Pullman Heavyweight Sleeping Cars
PostPosted: Sun Aug 09, 2026 2:45 am 
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Location: Seattle, WA - Land of Coffee
Update:

71. Woodland (Lot #6360, Plan #3410B, 1930, 12S-1DR, UP)--retained (12/31/1948)--to Jack Ferris-Private RR Cars, Inc. (1965) to Bear Creek Junction-Graham County RR (circa 1970) to Oregon, Pacific & Eastern-RR Town USA (circa early 1970's) to Moody Foundation-Galveston RR Museum (1978) to Iowa Pacific-San Luis & Rio Grande (circa early 2010's)

This car was acquired by the Colebrookdale RR in 2025.

Sources:

1. "The Complete Roster of Heavyweight Pullman Cars" by Robert J. Wayner (Wayner Publications, 1985)

2. "Passenger Car Catalog: Pullman Operated Equipment, 1912-1949" by William W. Kratville (Kratville Publications, 1968)

3. Tom Madden's Pullman Project CCR database: http://pullmanproject.com/Database.htm

_________________
Additions and corrections are welcome. Thanks in advance.

_________________
Ted Brumberg


Last edited by Rainier Rails on Sun Aug 09, 2026 2:56 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Surviving Pullman Heavyweight Sleeping Cars
PostPosted: Sun Aug 09, 2026 2:55 am 
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Location: Seattle, WA - Land of Coffee
Update:

181. Central Plateau (Lot #4971, Plan #3959/E, 1926, 3C-2DR-lng-obs, NYC)--retained (12/31/1948)--sold to BRC and modified to safety instruction car #1891 (1954) to Don Heimberger (date?) to Ted Lemen (date?) to Ms. J. Howe (Lincoln, IL) (date?) to Frederick Seibold #800220 (Sadorus, IL) (date?) stored on the Decatur Junction RY (Cisco, IL)

As posted in the Surviving Passenger Cars in the United States group on Facebook, this car was resold in 2025 to an unknown party, reportedly somewhere in Ohio, no further details at this time.

Sources:

1. "The Complete Roster of Heavyweight Pullman Cars" by Robert J. Wayner (Wayner Publications, 1985)

2. "Passenger Car Catalog: Pullman Operated Equipment, 1912-1949" by William W. Kratville (Kratville Publications, 1968)

3. Tom Madden's Pullman Project CCR database: http://pullmanproject.com/Database.htm

4. Surviving Passenger Cars in the United States group on Facebook

_________________
Additions and corrections are welcome. Thanks in advance.

_________________
Ted Brumberg


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 Post subject: Re: Surviving Pullman Heavyweight Sleeping Cars
PostPosted: Sun Aug 09, 2026 3:27 am 
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Location: Seattle, WA - Land of Coffee
Non-Surviving Cars:

Two cars which came up in discussion in groups on Facebook, neither of which survive:

Yosemite Park (Lot #4895, Plan #3962/A/B/C, 1926, 3DR-2C-2PVR*, Raymond & Whitcomb travel agency)--to 4DR-4C (1936) to 4DR-3C-barber-shower Joaquin Miller for the Forty-Niner (1937) back to 4DR-4C (1942)--retained (12/31/1948)--sold to R.P. "Rock" Moran (1961)**

This car was damaged (sideswiped/cornered) in a switching accident, no info on the exact date and location, and was subsequently scrapped.

*2PVR - 2 private rooms, 1 being a master stateroom, 1 being a compartment, both with attached private restrooms with shower-and-tub.

**Wayner lists the sale as to R.P. Moran, whereas the CCR database lists the sale as to the Illini RR Club.

Clover Lodge (Lot #3800, Plan #4036A/D, 1910/35, 8S-5DB, ex-Plan #2411/B 12S-1DR-1C Winans, nee-Felton, PRR/B&O)--streamlined for Capitol Limited (1938)--sold to B&O #7354 (12/31/1948)--to MofW #X-4106 (1964)

This car was later in the collection of the B&O RR Museum, and was scrapped at an unknown date due to being in poor condition.

Sources:

1. "The Complete Roster of Heavyweight Pullman Cars" by Robert J. Wayner (Wayner Publications, 1985)

2. "Passenger Car Catalog: Pullman Operated Equipment, 1912-1949" by William W. Kratville (Kratville Publications, 1968)

3. Tom Madden's Pullman Project CCR database: http://pullmanproject.com/Database.htm

4. Surviving Passenger Cars in the United States group on Facebook

5. The Pullman Company group on Facebook

_________________
Additions and corrections are welcome. Thanks in advance.

_________________
Ted Brumberg


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 Post subject: Re: Surviving Pullman Heavyweight Sleeping Cars
PostPosted: Sun Aug 09, 2026 3:38 am 
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Location: Seattle, WA - Land of Coffee
Update:

52. Orange State (Lot #4894, Plan #3410A, 1925, 12S-1DR, Overland Limited)--to GM&O (12/31/1948) to coach service #2206 (1959) to Dave Wallace (San Antonio/Longhorn, TX) (circa 1968-1970) to Robert Sherwood (Houston) (1973) damaged by fire while stored on Houston Belt & Terminal (Summer 1979) moved to storage in Middletown, PA (June 1981) to RR Museum of New England (1992) to Middletown & Hummelstown RR (Spring 1994)

This car, after an almost-sale in 2022 which fell through, has now been scrapped in-situ as of a few months ago on the M&H, as reported on Facebook.

Sources:

1. "The Complete Roster of Heavyweight Pullman Cars" by Robert J. Wayner (Wayner Publications, 1985)

2. "Passenger Car Catalog: Pullman Operated Equipment, 1912-1949" by William W. Kratville (Kratville Publications, 1968)

3. Tom Madden's Pullman Project CCR database: http://pullmanproject.com/Database.htm

4. The Pullman Company group on Facebook

_________________
Additions and corrections are welcome. Thanks in advance.

_________________
Ted Brumberg


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 Post subject: Re: Surviving Pullman Heavyweight Sleeping Cars
PostPosted: Sun Aug 09, 2026 3:47 am 
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Location: Seattle, WA - Land of Coffee
Update:

10. Columbia College (Lot #4648, Plan #4042, 1922/34, 10S-2DB-1C, ex-Plan #2585D 10S-1DR-2C Cape Fear, Overland Limited/Havana Special)--sold to ACL (12/31/1948)--to MofW #65374 (1960) to SCL #765374, to SBD, to CSX, to John Birmingham-Boulder Scientific-CLPX (1991)

This car had been reported as scrapped as of a few months ago in Mead, CO, but it is in fact still extant, and is currently listed for sale by East Tennessee Rail Car Services, Inc.

Sources:

1. "The Complete Roster of Heavyweight Pullman Cars" by Robert J. Wayner (Wayner Publications, 1985)

2. "Passenger Car Catalog: Pullman Operated Equipment, 1912-1949" by William W. Kratville (Kratville Publications, 1968)

3. Tom Madden's Pullman Project CCR database: http://pullmanproject.com/Database.htm

4. Surviving Passenger Cars in the United States group on Facebook

5. The Pullman Company group on Facebook

_________________
Additions and corrections are welcome. Thanks in advance.

_________________
Ted Brumberg


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 Post subject: Re: Surviving Pullman Heavyweight Sleeping Cars
PostPosted: Sun Aug 09, 2026 4:06 am 
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Location: Seattle, WA - Land of Coffee
Another Survivor:

498. Mt. Lyell (Lot #4816, Plan #3521/K/N, 1924, 10S-lng-obs, general service)--to CB&Q #644 (12/31/1948) to MofW #251166 (4/1959) to BN #968029 (8/1975) to Fred Keppner-Great Western RY Museum (Bend, OR) (5/1984) moved to storage in McCloud, CA (circa 1980's)

Several other cars in storage at McCloud have been discussed here before, including 368. Pampanga/TC #1391, 369. Sakana/TC #1431, and 475. General A.H. Terry, but the Mt. Lyell, still stenciled as BN #968029, was unknown to me until a recent thread in the GN Goat email listgroup (on GroupsIO), concerning various BN stock in MofW service that were then acquired by Keppner.

Sources:

1. "The Complete Roster of Heavyweight Pullman Cars" by Robert J. Wayner (Wayner Publications, 1985)

2. "Passenger Car Catalog: Pullman Operated Equipment, 1912-1949" by William W. Kratville (Kratville Publications, 1968)

3. Tom Madden's Pullman Project CCR database: http://pullmanproject.com/Database.htm

4. "Burlington Passenger Car Roster, 1869-1930's, Revised" by William L. Glick (Quincy House, 1987)

5. BN equipment ledgers

6. GNgoat email listgroup

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 Post subject: Re: Surviving Pullman Heavyweight Sleeping Cars
PostPosted: Sun Aug 09, 2026 4:20 am 
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Another Survivor:

499. unknown Plan #3585 10S-1DR-2C, currently located in Campo Carretero, Sonora, Mexico

This car was brought to my attention a month ago by Wil Hata. Current thinking is that this is a different car from another Plan #3585 which has been discussed here previously, the SP #8185 Lake Salvador/FdeP #202 Augustin Lara, which was last known to be located in La Junta, Chihuahua, Mexico, as of 2003. More updates on cars south of the border to come.

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 Post subject: Re: Surviving Pullman Heavyweight Sleeping Cars
PostPosted: Sun Aug 09, 2026 4:34 am 
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Another Survivor:

Another car I was made aware of recently by Wil Hata.

500. Unknown Plan #3523 6C-3DR, rebuilt to NdeM business car #3553, now owned by Ferrovalle (FTVM) in Tlalnepantla, Mexico, Mexico.

NdeM did not acquire any Plan #3523 cars directly from Pullman, so this was perhaps a transfer from SPdeM, or was otherwise acquired secondhand from another source. As such, there is little-to-no available info to trace this car back to its original Pullman name; a search of the MEXLIST group provided no results.

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 Post subject: Re: Surviving Pullman Heavyweight Sleeping Cars
PostPosted: Sun Aug 09, 2026 5:14 am 
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More Survivors:

I don't know why these cars have never been discussed here in this thread before now, as their survival is well-documented.

501. Diner #11 (Lot #4916, Plan #3952C, 1925, ACL)--to Erie #947 (1st) (6/1927) to #941 (2nd) (before 5/1952) to EL #741 (after 10/1960) to MofW #473511 (after 1/1970) to CR #45914 (after 4/1976) to Everett RR (circa mid-1990's) to Erie-Lackawanna Dining Car Preservation Society (2001) moved to Scranton, PA (4/2012) moved to Port Jervis, NJ (4/2022) to Erie Business Car Society (3/2024)

502. Diner #10 (Lot #4916, Plan #3952C, 1925, ACL)--to Erie #946 (6/1927) to EL #746 (after 10/1960) to MofW?? (after 1/1970) to Greenwood RR Historical Center (Greenwood, SC) (date?)

503. Diner #7* (Lot #4916, Plan #3952C, 1925, ACL)--to Erie #941 (1st) (6/1927) to #947 (2nd) (before 5/1952) to EL #747 (after 10/1960) to MofW?? (after 1/1970) to office in Ohio (date?), exact location not listed, current status unknown (known to be extant as recently as circa 2013)

*There is confusion in the source material about which car became Erie #941 (1st). The write-up for the history of these cars on the old ELDCPS website (from before the number swapping of #941 and #947 was discovered) lists that the #941 (1st) was the ex-#7; however, based on the dates-of-sale of these cars and how numbers were assigned (from highest to lowest), I hypothesize that the #941 (1st) may have instead been the ex-#16 (listed as sold to the Erie in 5/1930), but I would need further documentation to prove/disprove.

Sources:

1. "The Complete Roster of Heavyweight Pullman Cars" by Robert J. Wayner (Wayner Publications, 1985)

2. "Passenger Car Catalog: Pullman Operated Equipment, 1912-1949" by William W. Kratville (Kratville Publications, 1968)

3. Tom Madden's Pullman Project CCR database: http://pullmanproject.com/Database.htm

4. ELDCPS historical summary for the #939-#947 diners:

___4a. Archived version: https://web.archive.org/web/20131228150130/http://eldcps.org/pages/equip_741.html

___4b. Current version: https://www.pjmuseum.org/941

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Additions and corrections are welcome. Thanks in advance.

_________________
Ted Brumberg


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