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 Post subject: Re: Wilmington & Western to Restart Operations - Safely?
PostPosted: Mon Nov 17, 2025 5:25 pm 

Joined: Fri Feb 12, 2010 7:52 pm
Posts: 112
Just asking a hypothetical: is there an incentive for this organization to like a sports team "tank" or intentionally lose? Is there a benefit to putting a conscious effort into underperforming?

On another note, the NH&I used temps back in the spring of 2002 to help staff the ill-conceived Thomas The Tank Engine weekend in Buckingham with....shall we say....mixed results.


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 Post subject: Re: Wilmington & Western to Restart Operations - Safely?
PostPosted: Mon Nov 17, 2025 8:25 pm 

Joined: Sat Oct 17, 2015 5:55 pm
Posts: 2876
wrg113 wrote:
Just asking a hypothetical: is there an incentive for this organization to like a sports team "tank" or intentionally lose? Is there a benefit to putting a conscious effort into underperforming?

There are entities that intentionally run off customers so that they can get permission to scrap a line. One is called A&K Materials, owned by a scrap metal company, which tried that trick with many lines, buying for example the old IC passenger main in Mississippi, the old MP east of Pueblo, and the west end of the TP&W, which they bought from RailAmerica, who didn't want a competitor to their BNSF trackage rights. A&K called their TP&W acquisition SF&L RR, it had one Alco that the old TP&W guys described as "converted from steam", service was almost non-existent, customers bailed, which A&K then used as an excuse for abandonment. All of the above failed to pass muster with the STB which forced a sale, but many others have been successful. So, I wouldn't put it past a corrupt tourist line to try the same trick.


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 Post subject: Re: Wilmington & Western to Restart Operations - Safely?
PostPosted: Mon Nov 17, 2025 8:31 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 1:51 pm
Posts: 12151
Location: Somewhere east of Prescott, AZ along the old Santa Fe "Prescott & Eastern"
wrg113 wrote:
Just asking a hypothetical: is there an incentive for this organization to like a sports team "tank" or intentionally lose? Is there a benefit to putting a conscious effort into underperforming?


There have been accusations made back-channel to me--and I have no idea whether they are spite, speculation, or based on some substance--that the long-term objective of the current BOD is to either turn the line into a rail-bike/speeder operation exclusively, OR eventually turn it into a trail. (Allegedly a couple Board members are NARCOA members.....)

The supposed basis of the allegation seems to revolve around an accusation I have heard that some "rail-bike" operators manage to personally profit from temporary/permanent rail-bike operations set up on either operating or defunct rail operations. Supposedly this is done by perfectly-legal-but-questionable financial arrangements, like a principal buying the rail-bike "kits" and then leasing the completed bikes to the tour operator in such a way that the bikes are paid for in short order, and then stored for lease for another season or moved to another "temporary" operation and leased again at high profit.

Mind you, there exist equally questionable and dubious financial shenanigans in the real railroad industry. I distinctly remember one (fired) CMO remarking that the short line he (formerly) worked with used locos that were the personal property of the line's president's wife, leased to the operating company at some exorbitant rate per day or month--supposedly perfectly legal, and may have some weird tax advantages, but still smells to high heck.

On the one hand, I like the idea of temporary railbike offerings at heritage railways--it's different, a "limited time offer," and can in theory move from line to line just like "Thomas" or the Gramling steam locos. On the other hand, it's "different" enough to conflict in a sense with real train rides, and can help push the idea that "this would be better as a trail for all rather than a train ride for some....."


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 Post subject: Re: Wilmington & Western to Restart Operations - Safely?
PostPosted: Tue Nov 18, 2025 4:28 pm 

Joined: Fri Dec 17, 2010 2:27 pm
Posts: 21
Location: Tyrone, PA
It’s a true shame what’s been allowed to happen down there. The post made on this same forum yesterday sure is a wide-eyed look at the mechanical side of things.


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 Post subject: Re: Wilmington & Western to Restart Operations - Safely?
PostPosted: Tue Nov 18, 2025 5:12 pm 

Joined: Sat Oct 17, 2015 5:55 pm
Posts: 2876
TheQualifiedEngineer wrote:
It’s a true shame what’s been allowed to happen down there. The post made on this same forum yesterday sure is a wide-eyed look at the mechanical side of things.

Are we sure that the post is about the W&W? If so, I'll bet the FRA will be moseying on over there for a look around.


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 Post subject: Re: Wilmington & Western to Restart Operations - Safely?
PostPosted: Tue Nov 18, 2025 5:56 pm 

Joined: Fri Dec 17, 2010 2:27 pm
Posts: 21
Location: Tyrone, PA
They appear to be photos of their steam engine(s). Specifically, the cylinder defects of 4-4-0 #98 which were referenced somewhere online previously.

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 Post subject: Re: Wilmington & Western to Restart Operations - Safely?
PostPosted: Tue Nov 18, 2025 9:21 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 7:25 pm
Posts: 2559
Location: The Atlantic Coast Line
TheQualifiedEngineer wrote:
They appear to be photos of their steam engine(s). Specifically, the cylinder defects of 4-4-0 #98 which were referenced somewhere online previously.


Well...the writer's handle is "JointedRail98" and this was the writer's first post.


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 Post subject: Re: Wilmington & Western to Restart Operations - Safely?
PostPosted: Tue Nov 18, 2025 11:30 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 1:51 pm
Posts: 12151
Location: Somewhere east of Prescott, AZ along the old Santa Fe "Prescott & Eastern"
wesp wrote:
Well...the writer's handle is "JointedRail98" and this was the writer's first post.

Under that pseudonym, at least............ Any long-term member of this forum could just create a new username account, as well.


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 Post subject: Re: Wilmington & Western to Restart Operations - Safely?
PostPosted: Wed Nov 19, 2025 7:28 am 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 9:05 am
Posts: 8
Those photos were indeed from Wilmington. Imagine taking a photo of your family in front of a live steam locomotive with only a few worn threads holding a boiler plug from bursting and launching the plug followed by an uncontrolled storm of hot water and steam. That's what you have at Wilmington.

The former CMO used to discourage volunteers from trying to make repairs to things saying, "don't mess with it, it might get worse" or " it's good enough for what we do". Volunteer steam crews were always in conflict with the CMO over these things. The board took sides with the CMO and locked out the volunteers who cared about safety and awarded the former CMO a spot on the board of directors in a sham election.

WW


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 Post subject: Re: Wilmington & Western to Restart Operations - Safely?
PostPosted: Wed Nov 19, 2025 10:38 am 

Joined: Fri Dec 17, 2010 2:27 pm
Posts: 21
Location: Tyrone, PA
To build on Wayne’s post above, I have heard a lot about what’s going on down at the W&W, and I feel the following is worth sharing. I want to be upfront, though: everything here comes from volunteers who were directly involved, but I can’t verify every detail. These issues are being discussed openly, and ignoring them isn’t helping anyone. From the outside, it seems this current regime’s response has been to bury their heads in the sand and hope these issues go away.

Some of the people invited back (chosen by current leadership) to operate trains reportedly have past operating-history concerns. One Conductor/Engineer, who volunteers say has close personal ties to board members, was reportedly removed from service under the old regime for allegedly starting movement while volunteers were still between equipment, supposedly more than once. Another invitee was described by multiple people as having been removed previously for repeated cell-phone or conduct violations.

There are also reports about a duo who are currently operating, tied to a failed banner test. Volunteers say both held management roles at the time, and they claim the matter was never addressed transparently.

Another individual, volunteers say, handled maintenance for many years, and the aforementioned RYPN post from this past Monday covering that person’s tenure has prompted additional questions about the mechanical condition of the operation.

I cannot confirm these claims; I’m only reporting what’s circulating. Given these concerns, however, it’s fair to ask whether current leadership is making sound decisions around safe operations.

Lastly, a former volunteer shared details of a FOIA-obtained 911 recording from one of their recent peaceful protests, where a board member allegedly called the police. In the description posted on Facebook, it was claimed the board member stated he needed to go operate a railroad signal. With the last paid employee responsible for the track now gone, volunteers say it’s unclear what qualifications anyone currently has for handling signals or track infrastructure.

When the railroad crosses busy roads, it’s reasonable to ask why anyone without clearly established qualifications is interacting with critical safety and signal systems.

These are not my speculations; these are concerns being raised by people involved. If any of this is inaccurate, leadership needs to clarify. Silence only reinforces the perception that decisions are being made without regard for past practice, safety, or transparency.

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