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 Post subject: “Licenses free” radios for your organization.
PostPosted: Sun Sep 07, 2025 12:55 pm 
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Location: MA
Even if you have an AAR-licensed radio system, the last thing you want is a situation like this:

Conductor: “Two cars to a…”
Car Host: “HEY, WE JUST GOT A FAMILY IN LATE—DO WE HAVE FOUR EMPTY FACING SEATS?”

This is why it’s a good idea to have general-use radios for events and activities that don’t rely on the same safety-critical system the operating crew uses.

There are three main “license-free” options. (Yes, technically some HAM operators will point out that they’re still regulated—but for the average user, “license-free” means you can buy the radios and use them right out of the box without paperwork, filings, or fees.) These are FRS, MURS, and ISM. We won’t cover CB here, since handheld CB radios are generally poor performers.

Here’s a quick breakdown:

FRS (Family Radio Service):
These are the familiar 22-channel radios you see at Walmart, Home Depot, and other big-box stores—often at very low prices. They offer medium range and decent obstacle penetration. The downside is that everyone uses them, including GMRS users, who can broadcast at much higher power, so interference is common.

MURS (Multi-Use Radio Service):
This service has only 5 channels but offers the longest range of the three. However, it doesn’t penetrate obstacles very well. The upside is that very few people use it (aside from Walmart in some cases), so interference is rare. Radios can be more expensive, but with some searching, you can still find them for around $30 each.

ISM (Industrial, Scientific, and Medical bands):
Most ISM radios operate in the 900 MHz range. They have the shortest range but the best penetration through obstacles. Interference is almost nonexistent, and many units offer advanced features like encrypted digital communication, spread spectrum, and even private call functions between individual users. The trade-off is cost—ISM radios are usually the most expensive option.

Hopefully, this guide helps you choose the right radio system for your needs.


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 Post subject: Re: “Licenses free” radios for your organization.
PostPosted: Sun Sep 07, 2025 7:14 pm 

Joined: Wed Jul 26, 2017 4:24 pm
Posts: 139
Or simply teach radio procedures.

There is a importance for interoperability and for all to hear what's going on for safety. Short if performers using a radio I think car hosts should be able to hear and work around train operations


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 Post subject: Re: “Licenses free” radios for your organization.
PostPosted: Sun Sep 07, 2025 9:38 pm 

Joined: Thu Aug 05, 2010 2:06 am
Posts: 411
#1 The AAR does not license radio services. The AAR coordinates applications for specific channels to ensure as far as practical that interference between licensees is minimized.

#2 The FCC is the licensing body and may issue a license once the applicant has provided the proper documentation which includes frequency coordination from the AAR.

#3 The last time I handled an application it cost no more to coordinate a second frequency pair. Get a second channel to use so you only need 1 radio for your facility and not multiple, non-interoperable sets. In a true emergency situation it is much easier to change radio channels than it is to find "that other radio".

#4 Using a different service does not automatically prevent poor operating practice. Properly train your people.

#5 There is nothing to prevent someone from coming on or near your property with a radio from one of the other services and causing interference, malicious or otherwise. Worse yet, they could issue bogus transmissions. While the same can be said for RR radios they are generally a bit more difficult and expensive to obtain.

.........................mld


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 Post subject: Re: “Licenses free” radios for your organization.
PostPosted: Tue Sep 09, 2025 10:39 pm 

Joined: Thu Aug 29, 2024 10:31 pm
Posts: 14
We use a simple walkie talkie of decent quality. It has made the entertainment communications totally separate. The only person carrying both radios are the train master and the volunteer coordinator. We are not in a metro area so we have not had any problems with the public in the same channel. Only qualified members will get a RR radio. They know the protocol and when to be quiet. The extras get an "Orange" radio. At first is seemed a bit redundant, but after 2 years is it is really nice having them separate. Problems are resolved faster because they are not as afraid to use the "Orange" radio instead of the "Railroad" radio.


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 Post subject: Re: “Licenses free” radios for your organization.
PostPosted: Wed Sep 10, 2025 9:06 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 1:51 pm
Posts: 12152
Location: Somewhere east of Prescott, AZ along the old Santa Fe "Prescott & Eastern"
Any operation of any size with public operations owes it to themselves to contact a reputable local radio outfitter for their recommendations.

The well-known, almost cliché Motorola "bricks" are so commonplace for a reason: They're idiot-proof and stand up to some of the most outrageous abuse or neglect.

My radio-expert friend and I were called in to assist a large indoor convention/festival in a city convention center where the organizers had tried to operate the event using family-channel "talkabouts." The previous year's results were pathetic, if not downright dangerous--weak range and lots of interference from other users. Both Motorola and the local company pre-programmed the "bricks" to pre-set commercial channels, and we went as far as to install repeaters to cover two "dead zones." The convention grew to become the largest single short-term radio rental client in the Delaware/Maryland/Virginia region, and we wrote up a procedures manual that turned what had been a technical problem into solely an inventory-control department that could be handled by people with no knowledge of radios.

FRS "Talkabouts" might work for a one-off local excursion or low-priority issues like the parking lot at a "Day Out With Thomas" event, but don't trust them for operations on a regular basis.


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 Post subject: Re: “Licenses free” radios for your organization.
PostPosted: Sat Sep 13, 2025 3:14 pm 
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Location: MA
mldeets wrote:
#5 There is nothing to prevent someone from coming on or near your property with a radio from one of the other services and causing interference, malicious or otherwise. Worse yet, they could issue bogus transmissions. While the same can be said for RR radios they are generally a bit more difficult and expensive to obtain.

.........................mld

Yeah good luck trying to interfere on a spread spectrum digitally encrypted ISM 900 MHz radio. Even if you get one of the entry level 900 Mhz ISM radios the likelihood somebody else will have one and know how to manipulate it to interfere is almost ziltch. In fact I'd argue that you are safer with a 900Mhz radio as almost any standard $25 Baofeng can easily go on to Railroad frequencies.


Last edited by RCD on Wed Sep 17, 2025 3:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: “Licenses free” radios for your organization.
PostPosted: Wed Sep 17, 2025 1:24 pm 

Joined: Thu Aug 05, 2010 2:06 am
Posts: 411
I'll give you points for using advertising buzzwords. While it may be more difficult to interfere by voice it is still easily possible to interfere by having a "carrier" on the same channel grouping. Checking in on the Motorola DTR 700 it has 50 channel sets available.
There are drawbacks to using the license free or as the FCC calls it Part 15 radio services. Title 47 Part 15 of the CFR states in 15.5 (b)
Quote:
(b) Operation of an intentional, unintentional, or incidental radiator is subject to the conditions that no harmful interference is caused and that interference must be accepted that may be caused by the operation of an authorized radio station, by another intentional or unintentional radiator, by industrial, scientific and medical (ISM) equipment, or by an incidental radiator.

This means the user cannot cause interference to and must accept interference from licensed users of the spectrum.
Another drawback is the Part 15 devices are limited to 1 watt for systems using at least 50 hopping channels and 1/4 watt for systems using less than 50 but at least 25 channels. Anything more requires a license.

On another point, I've searched and can find no radio manufacturer by the name of Bowfang. Please share specific advertising or literature to support your statement.

No matter what, this still does not address the problem stated in the original post which is poor operator training. As others have posted, proper operating technique will eliminate the problem....mld


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 Post subject: Re: “Licenses free” radios for your organization.
PostPosted: Wed Sep 17, 2025 1:47 pm 

Joined: Thu Feb 26, 2009 3:07 pm
Posts: 1209
Location: B'more Maryland
I think they misspelled it: https://baofengtech.com/

_________________
If you fear the future you won't have one.
The past was the worst.


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 Post subject: Re: “Licenses free” radios for your organization.
PostPosted: Wed Sep 17, 2025 3:08 pm 
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Location: MA
Fixed it. Yeah a lot of the Baofeng radios straight from China can TX in places where you're not supposed to TX.


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 Post subject: Re: “Licenses free” radios for your organization.
PostPosted: Wed Sep 17, 2025 10:26 pm 

Joined: Thu Aug 05, 2010 2:06 am
Posts: 411
My delay in answering is due to trouble logging in & staying logged in.

I'm glad to see you got the correct spelling (with help from others). Please link a data sheet of even one radio at that price point that will transmit on RR frequencies and you will have made your point.

There are many manufacturers who produce radios that will
Quote:
...TX in places where you're not supposed to TX.
without a proper license. The manufacturers cannot control who transmits where.

None of this has yet to address the first problem stated - poorly trained operators. While you continue to attempt to reinvent the wheel please ponder this - If you move a poorly trained operator to another radio band you still have a poorly trained operator...........mld


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 Post subject: Re: “Licenses free” radios for your organization.
PostPosted: Thu Sep 18, 2025 3:09 pm 
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The Baofeng UV-5R straight from China can TX all of those. https://www.universal-radio.com/catalog/ht/0205spec.html if I did it demonstration to prove it though I have a feeling I'd get a lot of sad Hams on here. I can say I have witnessed one once TX on the police band and get a response, when I realized what was happening and I took the radio from the individual and fixed it so wouldn't do that again.


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 Post subject: Re: “Licenses free” radios for your organization.
PostPosted: Thu Sep 18, 2025 4:43 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 1:51 pm
Posts: 12152
Location: Somewhere east of Prescott, AZ along the old Santa Fe "Prescott & Eastern"
Here's the problem:

When you screwed up the spelling of "Baofeng" (who is a major player in the North American TX radio market, whether we like it or not), you damaged your credibility to those who know the trade as much as if you had referenced "Alcoa RS3 Diesels," "EDM SC-402 diesels," "426 Pacifics." or "Baldin-Westerhouse diesels" to this crowd.

Or referencing automobiles made by "Hunday," "Keea," or ""Folkswagon."


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 Post subject: Re: “Licenses free” radios for your organization.
PostPosted: Thu Sep 18, 2025 9:06 pm 
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Location: MA
If anybody wants to know my credentials.
KC1ICC and WRFU582


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 Post subject: Re: “Licenses free” radios for your organization.
PostPosted: Sun Sep 21, 2025 11:58 am 

Joined: Wed Jul 26, 2017 4:24 pm
Posts: 139
RCD wrote:
If anybody wants to know my credentials.
KC1ICC and WRFU582



A FCC technician class amateur radio and gmrs license are not credentials. I have over 2 decades of professional RF engineering experience, including 10 years with in class 1 as well as short line and museum railroads. Also serving the us military home and overseas as a civilian contractor on 3 continents, an subject matter expert in RF shielding for NATO. I have worked interoperability design between multiple stake holders. Engineered some of the largest p25 systems in the world.

The importance is training, and interoperability. Imagine a cat host smelling burning brakes, moving to the road channel can communicate a condition fast enough to avoid disaster.

Buying cheap bubble pack garbage will only give you garbage comms


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 Post subject: Re: “Licenses free” radios for your organization.
PostPosted: Sun Sep 21, 2025 1:47 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 1:51 pm
Posts: 12152
Location: Somewhere east of Prescott, AZ along the old Santa Fe "Prescott & Eastern"
RCD wrote:
If anybody wants to know my credentials.
KC1ICC and WRFU582


I have a driver's license. I can also watch YouTube tutorials.

That doesn't mean I'm qualified to diagnose and fix cars other than Saturn S-series cars (which I've owned for thirty years now).


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