European Train Control System (ETCS) installed on Tornado

choodude · **Joined:** Wed Jun 29, 2016 11:58 am **Posts:** 327

The European standard for signalling is being converted to this digital technology. Removing wayside signals is part of the transition.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/202 ... technology

So for steam engines to roam the main line rails they will have to get ETCS installed and working.

Brian Helfrich

mcgrath618 · **Joined:** Mon Feb 15, 2021 6:54 pm **Posts:** 230

Quote:

The UK’s railways are undergoing a major change to their signalling systems in the coming years. Network Rail is planning to remove traditional lineside colour light signals in favour of in-cab signalling systems along key routes. No steam locomotive in the world had ever been run with in-cab digital signalling – until now.

[Emphasis mine]

Weird thing for the Guardian to claim, considering that American locomotives ran with cab signals in the steam era…
Even if they meant something more modern, UP 4014 has had PTC installed and working for over a year now.

choodude · **Joined:** Wed Jun 29, 2016 11:58 am **Posts:** 327

mcgrath618 wrote:

Quote:

The UK’s railways are undergoing a major change to their signalling systems in the coming years. Network Rail is planning to remove traditional lineside colour light signals in favour of in-cab signalling systems along key routes. No steam locomotive in the world had ever been run with in-cab digital signalling – until now.

[Emphasis mine]

Weird thing for the Guardian to claim, considering that American locomotives ran with cab signals in the steam era…
Even if they meant something more modern, UP 4014 has had PTC installed and working for over a year now.

IIRC the UP 4014's PTC is actually installed on a diesel locomotive coupled behind 4014.

https://www.trainorders.com/discussion/ ... 10,6010922

> Ed, has stand-alone PTC been completed on 844 yet?
> Or does it still have the LeapTC version?
>
> Scott Gordon
>
> Posted from iPhone

I’ve been working toward full SA PTC installation, it is a matter of hardware connectivity and physical installation of all the gear, testing and away we go.

Thanks for the good question Scott,

Ed

Second, Cab signals from back in the day are considered analog compared to the modern computer controlled stuff that is ETCS and I assume the various flavors of PTC in the America's.

Brian Helfrich

bbunge · **Posted:** Mon Apr 21, 2025 9:23 pm

choodude wrote:

IIRC the UP 4014's PTC is actually installed on a diesel locomotive coupled behind 4014.

https://www.trainorders.com/discussion/ ... 10,6010922

Pretty sure 4014 has a new system and made at least one outing/test run solo last year. I read Ed's comment above as only relating to 844.

If I'm correct, it would seem to me that 4014 might have the claim to be the first steam locomotive to run on a digital system.

softwerkslex · **Posted:** Tue Apr 22, 2025 12:49 pm

mcgrath618 wrote:

Quote:

The UK’s railways are undergoing a major change to their signalling systems in the coming years. Network Rail is planning to remove traditional lineside colour light signals in favour of in-cab signalling systems along key routes. No steam locomotive in the world had ever been run with in-cab digital signalling – until now.

[Emphasis mine]

Weird thing for the Guardian to claim, considering that American locomotives ran with cab signals in the steam era…
Even if they meant something more modern, UP 4014 has had PTC installed and working for over a year now.

A locomotive in Sweden was fitted with ETCS about six years ago. It has been done.

Alexander D. Mitchell IV · **Posted:** Tue Apr 22, 2025 1:19 pm

Published today:

https://www.trains.com/trn/railroads/lo ... set-stage/

Quote:

The rumble of Canadian Pacific’s 4-6-4 Empress No. 2816 and Union Pacific’s 4-8-8-4 Big Boy No. 4014 echoed across thousands of miles in 2024. What made these journeys truly remarkable and deserving a brighter spotlight? Both locomotives were equipped with fully compliant, standalone Positive Train Control (PTC) systems. This means they can independently navigate their respective rail networks, a significant leap forward in blending historic and modern technology. No. 4014 even demonstrated this independence on certain portions of its 2024 tours, operating without a diesel helper. This achievement resets the stage, but the question remains: Will other mainline steam locomotives follow suit?

Much more relevant discussion at the link.

p51 · **Posted:** Fri Apr 25, 2025 1:26 pm

I fully understand the legalities of it all, but I always found PTC on mainline steam to be silly, as if there's not a bunch of eyes on everything in the cab at a time like that? PTC is mostly to make sure a "501 at Dupont" crash doesn't take place due to situational awareness issues.
But mainline steam? The only big fear is a mechanical issue.

PaulWWoodring · **Posted:** Fri Apr 25, 2025 11:12 pm

I said that years ago about mainline steam and PTC. These moves just about always happen with at least either a Road Foreman of Engines or Train Master on the train, if not in the cab. If the railroads or historical societies had been forward thinking enough when the regulations were being written they probably could have had some kind of historic exemption written into the regulations for steam locomotives, if not historic Diesels. Say, exempt if someone from supervision was in-charge of the train. It would not have been that big of a stretch.

softwerkslex · **Posted:** Sat Apr 26, 2025 4:57 am

p51 wrote:

I fully understand the legalities of it all, but I always found PTC on mainline steam to be silly, as if there's not a bunch of eyes on everything in the cab at a time like that? PTC is mostly to make sure a "501 at Dupont" crash doesn't take place due to situational awareness issues.
But mainline steam? The only big fear is a mechanical issue.

Yes, but it is not just about the steamer looking out for the other trains, it is about the other trains looking out for the steamer.

The steamer needs PTC to be visible to the other trains.