Instead of restoring 819 for no economic purpose, what about restoring the 2-6-0 they have to run the length of the yard? That would be a nice manageable operation that would see a Cotton Belt loco in steam and do it in a way that is sustainable to operate. You don't need mainline excursions to have steam, most visitors would be happy with a 45 minute caboose hop and it can be done as much as you want and on your own property.

The future is in small steam, not behemoth hangar queens.

From several reliable sources back in the 90s, the problem seemed to be with the management of the 819 group.

I'm not sure of the "landlocked" situation.

A wise man out in Portland once told me that more locomotives have been idled by the groups, egos and politics that mechanical issues.

Someone closer to the real story, feel free to chip in.

Someone find a willing shortline/regional that can handle the locomotive in Virginia and make some money with it...until then, be happy its operating anywhere.

Sorry, I had a longer response but my phone lost part of it. I meant to say that I was of the same mindset and did a quick search and of a quick skim, the only one I noticed was that.

Rick -

Makes perfect sense to me.


Les

I am...just an observation. unbunch your painties.

That locomotive was once discussed in a thread similar to this one about the 819, and iirc it is a quite large 2-6-0, possibly too large for just short yard hops. It spent its last years being beaten to death in a gravel pit, and would be a very expensive restoration, to say nothing of the logistics and management level that would also be required. Small(er) steam, I agree, is our most sustainable future.

Is the mogul impossible? No. But certainly seems like a very large project to take on for a group that (if I read Mr. Norden's post right, and that photo was from Labor Day) still had Christmas lights set up on the 819 in September.

-Sam

FYI- I am a board member of the Arkansas Railroad Museum. So I know at least what they tell me....

Yes, xmas lights. Maybe from Xmas 2020, hard to say, but certainly a bit tacky...

Yes, 336 is huge, and rusty. Probably needs a whole new tender. And cab. But I've always wondered if the boiler might be in really great shape.....

In any case, 'runs from one end of the yard to the other' are a few hundred feet, and there is little to no foreseeable prospect to expand that distance, we're mostly boxed in.

We are not truly 'landlocked' just deep inside UP territory. We have a working switch connected to the mainline, and equipment is coming and going once in a great while.

Robert

About the only place I could think of to run a steam locomotive in that region is (potentially) the Arkansas and Missouri Railroad, on the other side of the state.

They operate some excursions but they don’t have much rolling stock: and they operate on the other side of the state

.

Here is a photo of the 2-6-0 taken back on May 28th when I visited the Museum. From conversations we had at the Museum it appears that there is a small group of men in their retirement years that are staffing the open hours.

Basically the same info I got.
There was also an incident at the 1990 NRHS convention that helped sour the UP.
Hadn't heard about the protest. Sort of the Daisy over the cesspool. Sad, a nice engine and if run correctly would have been a real asset.
We (1522) were going to approach them to lease, beg, borrow or whatever the 819 when 1522 was being repaired from the derailment, but someone in the know told us not to even bother. We also, for the record, attempted the same with Frisco 4500 in Tulsa but kinda got stonewalled by the city. She was in 1000 pieces at that time.

Frankly, I find it hard to believe that institutional memory at Union Pacific still has 819 'blackballed' after a quarter century plus, especially with the changes in the steam program since the advent of TQM, as it were.

Has no one reached out to do any apologies, build any bridges... reform any attitudes with an eye toward getting the locomotive running? While I grant you 819 has no place in the "political" motivation of Union Pacific to run its heritage steam -- I don't recall the 819 group requiring any capital from UP to repair or maintain 819: all that's needed is the ability to traverse their trackage. And surely if CSX can permit that with a dead-in-train Berkshire, and NS with a dead-in-train 2-8-8-2 nearly twice the size... why not the Union Pacific, with similar guarantees of professional preparation and attention to detail?

Leaving aside the specifics of the Cotton Belt group's attitude toward the UP it might be good to remember that the UP was always willing to let Frisco #1522 run under steam on its tracks to leave the Museum of Transportation west of St Louis heading east to reach the TRRA, and connect with the BNSF and NS for excursions. They provided crews for these moves and on at least one occasion when they were short of crews put #1522 on the rear end of a local freight heading east past the museum.

.