Thanks Scrantonyard. Glad to hear at least 1 of those 10 should be in decent shape. I find it ironic that such stringent preservation standards must be followed for a cosmetic restoration, but letting most of these rot without being touched for 40 years seems to be an acceptable alternative. It's not like any of these have never been painted since being retired and are in original but deteriorated paint.

John

True. But pointing out problems without offering solutions is, by its very nature, complaining.

If people have complaints about what's going on, they're free to share them, but they need to realize that their complaints are not helpful without offering realistic solutions.

RYPN's reputation is bad enough without more repetitive yelling at clouds.

You'd think Steamtown was killing puppies, kicking the elderly, and putting ketchup on hotdogs with the amount of bandwidth wasted on it here.

In the grand scheme of things the $ 6 million a year of taxpayer funds sent to Scranton in the context of a multi Trillion dollar federal budget is trivial. In my little universe it's still a fortune but it ain't gonna change for the better so let's devote our energies towards places that do it right and are worthy of our support.

IMHO-Ross Rowland

It seems to me that the nature/theme of the overall complaint is that feasible solutions to the status quo are not deemed permissible, and/or the permissible solutions are not feasible.

And offering "solutions" without a full assessment (good and bad) of the current situation and potential obstacles is about as useful as the weekly "let's restore a PRR GG1 to operation!!!" proposal.

Thus, it seems the only real answers are to either abandon all hope and hope you can rescue something from the rubble (see ITM), endure the current status quo, or dramatically/completely change said status quo (see EBT).............

In the alternative, one could view it as humility. I am not deluded enough to believe I am all knowing and have all the solutions to the many challenges at STEA. I have done what I can to offer my limited experience and knowledge as a guide to others in preservation who have an interest in the artifacts there or who may be interested in pursuing a relationship with the Park Service. To the latter point, Superheater's brief history of the organizations that have come and gone at the site is extremely useful. We are historic preservationists. The whole point is to learn from the past to guide ourselves to a better future.

The fact is that there is an appreciable amount of equipment that is rotting and so I have offered a potential solution. Much of the equipment in question is, in the apparent view of the Park Service, outside of the Park Service's mission in Scranton, at the fringes, or is redundant with equipment that is in better condition. The recently restored Big Boy is certainly an eye catcher, as are the Reading T1 and the Grand Trunk Western, to name but a few. Unfortunately, it seems that human nature is to look at those beautiful static displays and then say, "Nice, but why are all those trains out there rusting away?" The presence of a large amount of artifacts in disrepair and in plain view hinders the Park Service's ability to provide the desired interpretive visitor experience because it sends a message that the artifacts are irrelevant. So my view is that it is in the interest of both the Park Service and the preservation community to find more appropriate stewards for as much of it as possible before it is beyond saving like the equipment that was scrapped a few years back or the Mines and Stores building that collapsed and had to be demolished about nine or ten years ago.

Having Volunteered in B.F. many moons ago. the issues are not new to me, just maybe not as severe as they are now, and we were a relatively small tight nit group. one thing that totally disgusted me several years ago was the destruction, thru lack of care, was many of the irreplaceable wooden cars of Boston and Maine and Rutland wooden equipment, that was left outside to rot, without even an attempt to tarp. many of these cars lived in a pole barn in Vermont. and no attempt was made to get them under cover once moved (the dry wood was a water magnet). the cars that did live outside in Vermont, had a dedicated crew that kept an eye on the roofs, and saw to new coverings as needed. one of the rotting vehicles demolished by the park service was a Central Vermont Caboose, that came onto the property from VRS just before the move, and having a fresh COTS was deemed the better of the two CV cabooses in the collection and thus moved.

Happy to report that the other, CV4014 has survived my two restorations, and is in currently in good Hands @ the Railroad museum of NE.

Al. P.

This is exactly my point. When STEA was conceived back in the late '80s and even when it opened in '95, there weren't many professionally managed rail preservation groups having solid business plans extant. The demise of the Steamtown Foundation is just one example. So it is understandable that this idea of a federally-funded operational steam rail museum with a large collection, a fully functioning yard, and a nice stretch of main line was initially extremely appealing to the average railfan.

Fast forward 25 years and we are extremely fortunate to be in a time where there are so many "places that do it right" and a good number of new professionally-run organizations that have solid plans in the works that include appropriate facilities and track access such that what happens at STEA is much less important in the overall rail preservation landscape. That is why I have suggested that the focus now should be on attempting to unburden the Park Service of the artifacts which have seen no care since the site opened before they disintegrate into oblivion.

My point is that all of this discussion is pointless unless people who are actually in a position to do something about it are involved.

Without that, it's all just "Lets restore it and run it on the mainline" but about a national park.

If we're not having a productive discussion than we're just making ourselves look foolish.

As of August 1st Ross you said "I've just been told by a source I trust solidly that work is continuing on the 3713." and I haven't seen anything to contradict that otherwise. What changed recently?

Speak for yourself.

To think that these issues present in such a way that solutions can be instantly conjured or that any one person on this board can come up with a quote "solution" to a very complex situation is a bit short sighted. This is a discussion board. This thread has a topic, which, stated in Jeopardy-like fashion, is the direction of STEA. Specifically, will it continue to shrink in scope of operations such that the chain of institutional knowledge will be broken in such a way that will preclude rail ops?

I have suggested that perhaps the current Superintendent is in a reevaluation period and maybe the direction of things may become more apparent with time. I have attempted to suggest other factors that I believe could also contribute to this potential reduction in scope. I stated my belief that nothing we say here will move the needle at STEA, certainly not in the short term. Finally, I made a suggestion of an approach that could possibly lead to the preservation of some of the artifacts that are most at risk at the site.

The time I took to make these contributions to this thread is mine and mine alone. It is a bit presumptuous for you to judge how I use my time by inferring that I have used it in an unproductive manner.

.

Except that the quality and calibre of discussion on this forum directly reflect the supposed utility of it.

If we want to attract people with positive contributions to the forum it's important for those people to have a positive opinion of it.

Numerous "old man yells at cloud" threads complaining about things that cannot be changed do nothing for the forum's reputation as one that is becoming rapidly irrelevant.

"True. But pointing out problems without offering solutions is, by its very nature, complaining."

Projection. The entire "sexism" offered nothing but sanctimonious indignity.

The truth is are no solutions, only tradeoffs. In a hypothetical world where some blue ribbon commission was convened and reported on the widespread dilapidation, one could imagine a boat load of money being dispatched to stabilize and asbestos abate all of the locomotives (and the rolling stock, and all of the structures that are part of the Site), but that wouldn't bring back the things that were lost to years of neglect or lost opportunities. The Erie Stillwells are gone-the Shay looks like and IED victim.

For the record, after spending a couple decades, several thousand hours, having served as a board member and officer on two volunteer groups-having done all the heavy lifting to bring the second one to life-including completing the exemption application and having done everything possible over a three year period to give the place a gift horse in the form of a visiting locomotive with the capacity to run excursions, bring in in visitors by the car load, renew crew experience with road steam and show the potential for partnerships-without even a simple thank you or telephone call to the principal-I have a right to complain. on my own behalf, as well as those who can no longer speak.

I did everything I possibly could-as did many others.

What have you done? Oh yeah, used profanity multiple times. I fail to see how this advocation is advanced if all we have are "safe spaces for potty mouths".

Be careful who you call old-to some people you are ancient.

Post Script: I just received a request from a lurker-who is in their own estimate old-to point out that the poster in question used ageist language-something many people find offensive, especially when used in the dismissive manner employed here.

It’s a federal facility. We are likely all tax payers. And political pressure can certainly be an effective tool. We are 100% in a position to bring about change, but it would be wise to settle on what we are pushing for before the pitchforks come out.