Steamtown Fade to Static?

484Mike · **Joined:** Wed Mar 27, 2013 3:55 am **Posts:** 173

co614 wrote:

It has restored zero, yes zero mainline locomotives in its collection and one (1) little switcher that took them 15 years ( yes years) to get back into service. Now lame for some unidentified reason.

When it opened it at least made a half hearted attempt to operate steam excursions. I went on one of the early ones and that cured me for life between the smokies everywhere with their sidearms, the silly rules of staying in your seat, not even allowed to rest your arm on an open window sill and the best one of all was female smokie telling me at Moscow to " move away from that engine as it could blow up and kill you". It was so bad it really was laughable.

But they have really impressive roll-up screens in the museum lecturing you about the role of women in railroading! What else could you expect nowadays?

Mike

6-18003 · **Joined:** Thu Jun 17, 2010 9:31 am **Posts:** 728

Scranton Yard wrote:

Before the fecal matter begins to be splayed about far and wide, I'd like to present an alternative possibility regarding some of the short-term issues Superheater has reported such as no operations in 2021 and the stop-work on the B&M pacific.

My recollection is that current STEA Superintendent Cherie Shepherd was onboarded some time in June '19, which would be about a third of the way through the STEA operating season. Then COVID hit and there were no operations in '20 and now '21. So she really has not had much of an opportunity to manage the site under normal operations and with a full complement of employees and volunteers on site.

Now it is possible that in that time she has seen procedures and processes that give her cause for concern. She may want to make some changes and really want to make the place operate better as a living history museum. In a large organization, such as the Park Service, this means any proposed changes will entail her sticking her neck out and so she will want to run top cover for any new process or procedures she is proposing. This means that she will need to explain to her superiors at regional (such as ex-STEA Superintendent Conway) that her proposed changes are viable and get them to a very high comfort level before she acts. If it goes south and it blows back it will blow back on her. So change will take time because she is ultimately responsible to regional and my take is that since Kip passed regional is scrutinizing things in Scranton at a higher level.

So, what does this mean on the ground? The Park service is like the military or like any other large organization. I remember when I was a student-employee at IBM. My second line supervisor took a liking to me. One day he wandered in and we were discussing the coming downturn at IBM and he said, "Just remember, IBM is like a big ship. It's hard to steer quickly but it's also hard to stop." So maybe Superintendent Shepherd is trying to steer the site in a new direction but, because of organizational inertia, a strong CYA institutional mentality, and the exogenous event (COVID), some things have to stop or slow down dramatically before they can advance.

Read the Railpace article from last fall. Take it as gospel, and let your mind wonder as to how someone who is the subject of such an article might react.

Emmo213 · **Posted:** Fri Sep 24, 2021 6:01 pm

co614 wrote:

Emmo what universe do you live in?? You'd rather keep plowing now $ 6 million a year into the place where they can't even keep a little 0-4-0 switcher running vs. letting a competent private sector DO like Strasburg run it correctly and save $ 3/4 million a year in taxpayer dollars ???

You can't be serious, can you???

Ross Rowland

All your numbers are made up to reinforce your point, and I won't implicitly trust a private company to not fleece the American taxpayers.

co614 · **Posted:** Fri Sep 24, 2021 7:29 pm

Emmo, for goodness sake just listen to yourself. You wouldn't trust a private company to not "fleece" the government. Yet you're ok with this government operation burning through $ 6 million taxpayer dollars a year and not coming remotely close to meeting its mission.

Are you serious? If you are, I'm afraid there's no hope for you.

Sadly, Ross Rowland

Scranton Yard · **Joined:** Thu Feb 27, 2014 10:08 am **Posts:** 731

6-18003 - I do not read RP so I am unfamiliar with the article you referenced.

Richard Glueck wrote:

The other considerable difference is Steamtown still houses some of the most desirable and wonderful locomotives remaining from the late steam era. It is a fine static museum, but in view of what it should have been, might have been, could have been, it's a disappointment.
Everyone who loves steam should visit, just bring a box of tissues while you do so.

No disrespect but any museum that lets so many artifacts stay out unprotected and has so many bits and pieces scattered all over the place with non-exisitant inventory control should not be categorized as "fine".

Everyone who cares about steam-era railroading should visit but leave your tissues home. Bring your digital visual recording device of choice, something to take notes, and boots that offer good protection. Walk around and take note of items you believe your museum could make a good home for. Go to RailFest and, if offered, take the tour of the archive. Have a look at all the odds and ends in the basement of the administrative building. Climb up the hill past where they coal the engines and have a look at what is dumped up there (word is that when they made the coaling area a bunch of stuff was plowed into the hill and down the other side of the hill). Look at the museum's accession/deaccession documents and familiarize yourself with the status of any items that would fit well into your museum's collection and mission. Go back to your museum and write up a professional proposal and, if possible, secure some funding. And then keep contacting the Superintendent, and the regional office, to make a deal to give the artifact a better home. Don't be deterred by the first "no". This is especially true for our neighbors to the North.

An aggressive and coordinated effort by those in the preservation community with the technical knowledge and museum management skill to evaluate what is in Scranton and to professionally present alternative futures for many of the wonderful artifacts there to the bureaucrats at STEA, in Philly, and in DC is a low probability move but still offers better hope for the responsible stewardship of the artifacts than the current situation.

Crescent-Zephyr · **Joined:** Wed Jan 20, 2016 1:15 pm **Posts:** 1796

co614 wrote:

Emmo, for goodness sake just listen to yourself. You wouldn't trust a private company to not "fleece" the government. Yet you're ok with this government operation burning through $ 6 million taxpayer dollars a year and not coming remotely close to meeting its mission.

Are you serious? If you are, I'm afraid there's no hope for you.

Sadly, Ross Rowland

Steamtown is a pretty big operation. They aren’t burning through $6 million per year. They are using that money, just not the way you or I might. They just did a total cosmetic job on the big boy. I’m sure that wasn’t cheap.

superheater · **Joined:** Sun Aug 22, 2004 11:54 pm **Posts:** 2604

@Scranton Yard

" So she really has not had much of an opportunity to manage the site under normal operations and with a full complement of employees and volunteers on site."

Not when she drives them away. The maintenance manager left and as I understand it the Debbie in this exchange-who was the Superintendent's Assistant has also departed.

Attachment:

Snip4a.JPG

You might want to make some inquiries of the relationship with the Lackawanna Heritage Valley.

Stationary Engineer · **Joined:** Thu Dec 12, 2013 1:26 pm **Posts:** 258

Any successful museum or tourist operation needs people (especially in upper management) with all three attributes; business acumen, vision and enthusiasm. You can't do it with just one or two. I bet every art museum curator has degree in art history and a love for art.

mcgrath618 · **Joined:** Mon Feb 15, 2021 6:54 pm **Posts:** 230

Scranton Yard wrote:

An aggressive and coordinated effort by those in the preservation community with the technical knowledge and museum management skill to evaluate what is in Scranton and to professionally present alternative futures for many of the wonderful artifacts there to the bureaucrats at STEA, in Philly, and in DC is a low probability move but still offers better hope for the responsible stewardship of the artifacts than the current situation.

Hey, you keep my city out of this! I can assure you that we have nothing to do with the issues at Steamtown.

6-18003 · **Joined:** Thu Jun 17, 2010 9:31 am **Posts:** 728

In terms of a private operator, there are two good options. One would be the R&N, which is a first class operation with steam available. Second would be the D-L, which controls the line outside of the yard limits by way of a contract with the local rail authority.

Steamtown actually pays the D-L for use of the line, I believe on a per-excursion basis, and the D-L has even been contracted to operate excursions when the park has been short on motive power. So there is certainly precedent for an outside agency operating out of the park.

To add a wrinkle to this discussion, I believe the D-L is prevented by contract from hosting their own excursions. However, since Steamtown has now opted to sit on the sidelines, could that exclusion be in danger of a legal challenge?

Connie4800 · **Joined:** Mon May 28, 2018 11:28 pm **Posts:** 90

484Mike wrote:

co614 wrote:

snip

But they have really impressive roll-up screens in the museum lecturing you about the role of women in railroading! What else could you expect nowadays?

Mike

RYPN turning-unrelated-issue-into-politics speedrun any%

i'm of the mind that the lack of operations is still probably because we're all reeling from covid; i think they'll manage to get something running eventually and screaming doom-n-gloom hardly helps the matter

I personally think the main problem Steamtown has is that it's a rather ramshackle collection of whatever Nelson could get for cheap shoved into the boots of being the effective US National Railway Museum. In a sensible country, it'd hopefully be managed by a cultural bureau instead of tacked onto the NPS; but we do not have one.

I also personally find it inappropriate that the main person going on about privatizing a national park is the guy who hasn't keep one steamer working past a 1472 day and infamously said he'd refuse to work around women; it all sorta ties back together into the whole argument being farcical.

Crescent-Zephyr · **Joined:** Wed Jan 20, 2016 1:15 pm **Posts:** 1796

Yes, Connie. Unlike many tourist railroads, the NPS has chosen to take Covid pretty seriously. That’s likely why there are no train rides at Steamtown.

I do think Steamtown should focus on having a working roundhouse with multiple steam locomotives in operation. They could always have visiting locomotives for now! (611, 261, 765, etc.)

6-18003 · **Joined:** Thu Jun 17, 2010 9:31 am **Posts:** 728

Crescent-Zephyr wrote:

Yes, Connie. Unlike many tourist railroads, the NPS has chosen to take Covid pretty seriously. That’s likely why there are no train rides at Steamtown.

I would agree with that statement if we saw gains in other areas, but we haven’t. They’ve had what, eighteen months to use time and money wisely and invest both in other aspects of the park - what do they have to show for it? Someone mentioned the Big Boy, was that work contracted out or performed in-house? Keep in mind that they only had to repaint her because the park failed to properly spec the RFP the last time it was painted, a job that failed almost immediately (at no fault of the contractor).

Has the park made any strides in respect to 3713? Work studies on 3377? Dilapidated rolling stock (including basics such as securing doors/windows, capping stacks, etc.)? The coaches that have been in the back shop for restoration for what has to be close to a decade?

What they HAVE successfully accomplished is grinding any and all work to a halt and pushing out their volunteer group (who staffs the excursion trips, btw), to the point that they are not even allowed to sell t-shirts or collect donations.

I’m glad that you are optimistic but your feelings do not match reality.

Scranton Yard · **Joined:** Thu Feb 27, 2014 10:08 am **Posts:** 731

superheater wrote:

@Scranton Yard

" So she really has not had much of an opportunity to manage the site under normal operations and with a full complement of employees and volunteers on site."

Not when she drives them away. The maintenance manager left and as I understand it the Debbie in this exchange-who was the Superintendent's Assistant has also departed.

Attachment:

Snip4a.JPG

You might want to make some inquiries of the relationship with the Lackawanna Heritage Valley.

Sup - My recollection of the regs regarding affiliated organizations (in the DOs) is that the Park Service has final say on all public postings made by affiliated groups regarding Park Service-related activities. I'm not saying that the communication in question falls under that, but it is not unreasonable for the Superintendent to look into the posting and subject matter activity to make sure it is outside her purview. I believe that the Park Service has been lax with this aspect of its relationships with other groups and I'm glad there is a Superintendent that takes this part of the job seriously.

I also believe it is a positive step that the new Superintendent is taking a close look at the relationship with the Lackawanna group. Always good to review relationships like that. Also, I have to believe that Debbie Conway had a role to play in picking her successor and Ms. Conway is also now her boss at the regional office in Philly, so I have to believe that regional has a certain comfort level with Ms. Shepherds actions regarding the Lackawanna group.

My only hope that this close scrutiny of relationships with external organizations and the activities of those groups is matched by an equally close scrutiny of internal Park Service activities at the site. Not generally my experience with the Park Service mindset but it could happen.

By the way, keep up the work in the gym. I can't work out like I once did but I do what I can and it makes a great deal of difference. Something is better than nothing. Same with volunteering. The great thing about preservation is that there are so many ways to contribute besides punching tickets in 100 degree heat. Enjoy your day.

Scranton Yard · **Joined:** Thu Feb 27, 2014 10:08 am **Posts:** 731

mcgrath618 wrote:

Scranton Yard wrote:

An aggressive and coordinated effort by those in the preservation community with the technical knowledge and museum management skill to evaluate what is in Scranton and to professionally present alternative futures for many of the wonderful artifacts there to the bureaucrats at STEA, in Philly, and in DC is a low probability move but still offers better hope for the responsible stewardship of the artifacts than the current situation.

Hey, you keep my city out of this! I can assure you that we have nothing to do with the issues at Steamtown.

STEA is under the auspices of the Regional Office in Philly.