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 Post subject: Another New Steam Locomotive in India
PostPosted: Sat Aug 28, 2021 1:12 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 8:31 am
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Location: South Carolina
Really good video detailing the recent construction of another X class 0-8-2RT rack and adhesion steam locomotive for India’s Nilgiri Mountain Railway. The locomotive is largely a copy of the locomotives built by the Swiss Locomotive Works (SLM) in the 1950’s. Apparent improvements over the originals include welded boilers and stainless steel water tanks.

This is the third such locomotive constructed by the Golden Rock Workshops, 2 earlier ones having been built there in 2011 and 2012. Interestingly, the new locomotive is coal fired while the ones built in 2011 and 2012 were oil-fired.

https://youtu.be/g9P1RMseLh0

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Last edited by whodom on Sun Aug 29, 2021 1:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Another New Steam Locomotive in India
PostPosted: Sat Aug 28, 2021 4:51 pm 

Joined: Sat Oct 17, 2015 5:55 pm
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Interesting, I wonder what the price is, I'll bet they could build a simple 4-4-0 or larger adhesion (without the rack mechanism) steamer with no problem, dirt cheap.

Not much discussion of the boiler (some at around 7:20) but I can't figure out how the firebox is stayed.


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 Post subject: Re: Another New Steam Locomotive in India
PostPosted: Sun Aug 29, 2021 11:17 am 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 7:19 am
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Location: southeastern USA
I'm always impressed with practicality and they have that in spades....... and they are producing things in house every day that are unobtainable over here apart from extremely costly one off production. Are we ignorant of a qualified source her or are there regulatory differences that would prevent us from using Indian made hydrostatic lubricators, injectors, dynamos, tires and rings, safety and check valves, or many other examples?

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 Post subject: Re: Another New Steam Locomotive in India
PostPosted: Sun Aug 29, 2021 12:53 pm 

Joined: Fri Aug 27, 2004 7:57 am
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Location: Faulkland, Delaware
Thanks for sharing that video. I was thoroughly impressed. I think I need to make a trip to India in the future.

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 Post subject: Re: Another New Steam Locomotive in India
PostPosted: Sun Aug 29, 2021 1:15 pm 

Joined: Thu Aug 26, 2004 2:50 pm
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Location: Northern Illinois
PMC wrote:
Not much discussion of the boiler (some at around 7:20) but I can't figure out how the firebox is stayed.


At 3:46 there is a view of the boiler shell during the firebox is installation and from the pattern of grind marks on the backhead I'd say full penetration welded stays.

I used to joke, when I was responsible for jobbing out injection molding, I wanted to visit the shop to see how many big hammers were hiding in the corners before I sent the tools. This shop seems to have more than its share. :-)

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 Post subject: Re: Another New Steam Locomotive in India
PostPosted: Sun Aug 29, 2021 1:19 pm 

Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2005 1:25 pm
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whodom wrote:
Really good video detailing the recent construction of another X class 0-8-0RT rack and adhesion steam locomotive for India’s Nilgiri Mountain Railway. The locomotive is largely a copy of the locomotives built by the Swiss Locomotive Works (SLM) in the 1950’s. Apparent improvements over the originals include welded boilers and stainless steel water tanks.

https://youtu.be/g9P1RMseLh0


Hugh -

Very interesting video. Not to nitpick, but isn't this really an 0-8-2 tank rather than an 0-8-0?

Les


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 Post subject: Re: Another New Steam Locomotive in India
PostPosted: Sun Aug 29, 2021 1:38 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 8:31 am
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Location: South Carolina
Les Beckman wrote:
Hugh -

Very interesting video. Not to nitpick, but isn't this really an 0-8-2 tank rather than an 0-8-0?

Les

You’re absolutely right; I knew better but I must have mis-typed. Fixed.

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 Post subject: Re: Another New Steam Locomotive in India
PostPosted: Sun Aug 29, 2021 2:03 pm 

Joined: Mon Oct 01, 2018 3:51 pm
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Location: Ipswich, Mass., Phoenix, AZ
Really neat. The work seems to be high quality too. One thing for certain: labor in India is far cheaper than here. The lack of PPE, especially eye protection, is alarming.


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 Post subject: Re: Another New Steam Locomotive in India
PostPosted: Sun Aug 29, 2021 3:35 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 7:19 am
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Location: southeastern USA
Walk into any railroad shop in the US in 1915 and you will find it similar.

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 Post subject: Re: Another New Steam Locomotive in India
PostPosted: Sun Aug 29, 2021 5:45 pm 

Joined: Thu Apr 14, 2005 9:34 pm
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Location: Copenhagen, Denmark
Now, I want to point out one of the most bizarre features of the previous oil burning new-builds. They use some kind of electric spinning cup (home furnace) burner, and thus need electricity. So they are fitted with electric generators where the coal space would be. You can see it in this video. I think the decision to build the next engine as a coal burner was a realization that this was a really bad design choice.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PvLUadY5rZY

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 Post subject: Re: Another New Steam Locomotive in India
PostPosted: Sun Aug 29, 2021 5:56 pm 

Joined: Sat Feb 11, 2006 10:42 am
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Location: Wyoming, DE
Hello,

Hugh thank you for posting. Interesting video and locomotive.

Few observations……

- Track Rack - not familiar with rack railway practice, the track rack has two spur racks offset by 1/2 pitch. Curious if this provides similar benefits if progressive tooth engagement similar to helical gears but without the side thrust?

- Rack Pinion Drive - it looks like the rack pinion drive is independent if the adhesion drive but wonder if they have a clutch that they can be interlinked? Perhaps once they engage the rack, base load the rack pinions and assist with adhesion? … or control separately?

- Pinion Drive Cylinders - curious why the pinion drive pistons have no tail rods but the adhesion cylinders do? Both sets of cylinders appear to be similar in size. Wouldn’t you want to limit wear on the rack drive cylinder bores too?

- Brakes - Use of ‘dynamic’ braking is interesting. Steam compression braking? Air compression braking? Also notice the band brakes used on the rack drive crank discs, note the discs are machined with grooves similar to multi-V belt pulleys, also note the brake bands similar to grip notch v-belts.

Really interesting!

Regards,

Randy


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 Post subject: Re: Another New Steam Locomotive in India
PostPosted: Sun Aug 29, 2021 7:24 pm 

Joined: Thu Aug 26, 2004 2:50 pm
Posts: 2815
Location: Northern Illinois
Randy Musselman wrote:

- Track Rack - not familiar with rack railway practice, the track rack has two spur racks offset by 1/2 pitch. Curious if this provides similar benefits if progressive tooth engagement similar to helical gears but without the side thrust?

The newly rebuilt cog line on Pike's Peak now has a double rack system. I believe this is a Swiss system, and likely has the advantage you state.
Quote:
- Rack Pinion Drive - it looks like the rack pinion drive is independent if the adhesion drive but wonder if they have a clutch that they can be interlinked? Perhaps once they engage the rack, base load the rack pinions and assist with adhesion? … or control separately.

They can't be mechanically interlocked, as the cog wheels are different diameter than the drive wheels, therefore each set of pistons runs a different speed. If they were on a common throttle, that could lead to a situation where the drive wheels just slip uncontrollably. So, there are either two throttles or a transfer valve that selects which cylinders receive steam, but the cab shots aren't clear enough to tell.

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 Post subject: Re: Another New Steam Locomotive in India
PostPosted: Sun Aug 29, 2021 8:12 pm 

Joined: Thu Apr 14, 2005 9:34 pm
Posts: 2836
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark
Dennis Storzek wrote:
Randy Musselman wrote:

- Track Rack - not familiar with rack railway practice, the track rack has two spur racks offset by 1/2 pitch. Curious if this provides similar benefits if progressive tooth engagement similar to helical gears but without the side thrust?

The newly rebuilt cog line on Pike's Peak now has a double rack system. I believe this is a Swiss system, and likely has the advantage you state.
Quote:
- Rack Pinion Drive - it looks like the rack pinion drive is independent if the adhesion drive but wonder if they have a clutch that they can be interlinked? Perhaps once they engage the rack, base load the rack pinions and assist with adhesion? … or control separately.

They can't be mechanically interlocked, as the cog wheels are different diameter than the drive wheels, therefore each set of pistons runs a different speed. If they were on a common throttle, that could lead to a situation where the drive wheels just slip uncontrollably. So, there are either two throttles or a transfer valve that selects which cylinders receive steam, but the cab shots aren't clear enough to tell.


On the Pikes Peak, it is the other way around. They originally had the Abt double rack, and now have a single rack. The Abt has the problem that if the two cog wheels wear differently they then cause more wear on the rack.

We rode the Furka Oberalp, Switzerland cog railway last month, and they have similar Abt engines. There is only one throttle. The rack engine is compound from the adhesion engine. It is cut out by simpling the adhesion engine. We noticed the adhesion engine slipping greatly on a rack section, and no noticeable effort to stop the slipping.

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 Post subject: Re: Another New Steam Locomotive in India
PostPosted: Sun Aug 29, 2021 8:36 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 8:31 am
Posts: 1341
Location: South Carolina
softwerkslex wrote:
Now, I want to point out one of the most bizarre features of the previous oil burning new-builds. They use some kind of electric spinning cup (home furnace) burner, and thus need electricity. So they are fitted with electric generators where the coal space would be. You can see it in this video. I think the decision to build the next engine as a coal burner was a realization that this was a really bad design choice.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PvLUadY5rZY

Truly, requiring a Diesel engine powered generator to power your steam locomotive’s oil burning system is bizarre, especially when oil-burning systems requiring none of that have been around for well over 100 years. Golden Rock previously built some new 0-4-0T locomotives for the Darjeeling Himalaya Railway which have a similar oil-firing system.

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 Post subject: Re: Another New Steam Locomotive in India
PostPosted: Mon Aug 30, 2021 2:25 pm 

Joined: Mon Jun 24, 2013 1:14 pm
Posts: 205
nedsn3 wrote:
Really neat. The work seems to be high quality too. One thing for certain: labor in India is far cheaper than here. The lack of PPE, especially eye protection, is alarming.


TBH, I'm more surprised to see them wearing actual work boots. Normally foundry work is done in sandals. (really!)

C.


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