Another significant issue which separates US and UK steam preservation was the sheer weight (ie, scrap value) of the locomotives. I picked a couple of random locos to compare the weight. LMS/ BR Black 5 5P5F 4-6-0, 18 of which are preserved- 85t. The BR 9F heavy freight 2-10-0, 9 preserved- 156t.
Now compare those to US steam;
I randomly chose a CNW 4-6-0 at about 121t. And a PRR I1a 2-10-0 at 295t.

I think you have most of the reasons for the English preserving more right there.

Wes

When saying that the Smithsonian turned down x or y locomotive please remember that this may have been because they had no place to put it. Jack White told me he was often asked about such things and had to say he had no place to even store another locomotive after they built the museum around the 1401. Making such suggestions is easy, but there is work involved that would have been beyond his budget and abilities. The GG1 that was wrecked in DC Union Station in 1953 is a perfect example and that is why it is in Baltimore, not DC.

RR Museum of PA has 1883 Baldwin Hawaiian sugar plantation locomotive, Waimanalo Sugar Company 0-4-2T 3, “Olomana,” on loan from the National Museum of American History, and 1836 8-wheel coach 3 from the Camden and Amboy, on loan from the Smithsonian.

I understood these were loaned to RRMPA because the Smithsonian museums in Washington didn't have a place to display them.

Phil Mulligan

I was in a thread that discussed this about 6-7 years ago, and I remember seeing that photo Les. I believe the numbers were 5104 (it was indeed one of the later 4-8-4’s if I’m not mistaken) and 5013 (a 4-8-2). But there have been conflicting reports about the specific locomotives. In that same thread was discussed that a 5100 was used by Commonwealth Edison as a stationary boiler

Here’s the old site the information I found from it, unfortunately you won’t have much luck with it unless it was archived.

http://www.rockisland905.com/hist_905.htm

We can't forget Southern Railway Ps-4 # 1410 . . . the littlest Ps-4. Built by Southern shop forces in the mid-'30's this live steam locomotive resided at Southern's headquarters in Washington and at one time graced the entrance to the NS board room in Roanoke and I believe in Norfolk as well. She stayed on Southern's roster until the merger with NS. She may still be on, but I don't know.

Steamguy73 -

Thanks for the comments. I found an old thread on these Rock Island engines entitled:

Rock Island 5013 and 5104

Hopefully a search will bring it up.


Les

The "Olomana" was exhibited in the Smithsonian's Railroad Hall for years until being loaned out. I spoke with Jack White today about this and he reminded me that the donation of #1401 had been decided on before he arrived at the Smithsonian and he saw no reason to upset that arrangement. The "Olomana" was small enough that they could roll it over the floor and on to a steel structure at the same level, partly over a staircase leading down to the main level of the hall. If you Google it and look at the photos you will see how it was located. The way it was exhibited allowed people to walk under it and be able to look up at its underside.

What I'm asking is this:

According to Trains Magazine's article, what were the other two Ps-4s set up for display numbered?

I can't prove a negative.

But I just did a search of Trains' digital archives, and found NO mention of any such "three set aside for preservation," but in bits and pieces confirmation of the accounts on the first page. (A warning that the search function of that early DVD set is notoriously unreliable.)

Trains' "definitive" article (cover story, actually) on the Ps-4 by H. Stafford Bryant Jr. appeared in October 1950; at that point the first two had been scrapped. No mention is made of any to be preserved, but it was suggested that all might end up scrapped, even though at that writing some of Spencer's allocation were still being maintained in fine cosmetic condition.

And maybe I'm bragging or overconfident, but if an article had mentioned all three, I'm confident that in my decades of perusing the magazine (complete set for decades), I would have seen and remembered it.

I think you're chasing an urban legend. Those are notoriously popular with railroaders, you know--like the former PRR guy who INSISTED to my face that the only reason railroads dieselized, AND the only reason EMD sales overtook Alco, Baldwin, etc. was that GM threatened to withhold freight from the railroads that didn't buy their diesels...........

I think you're right. I've never seen documentation to it either. Maybe there were some tentative plans. Maybe not. Given that 1393 was cleaned up for a display event in 1953 at Spencer suggests that if there were other Ps-4s for a possible donation, that engine was a likely candidate. You can probably narrow the field down a bit more by determining what was still around by mid 1953. Either way, if there were plans, they didn't happen and all of them minus 1401 were scrapped.

Consider ourselves the fortunate ones that 1401 survives in a good home and is better protected than almost any other display engine out there. We also have a "kissing cousin" in A&WP 290. Not quite a Ps-4, but very, VERY close. Fans of many other railroads that held on much longer than Southern did only wish they were so lucky.

I don't know about the Trains article, but the 1396 or 1397, whichever one led FDR's funeral train north from Atlanta, was supposedly offered to Atlanta. Mayor Hartsfield, who apparently hated trains and, incidentally, almost caused 290 to be scrapped years later, turned it down.

Figures the Atlanta airport is named for him.

No, it's not an urban legend. The article was within the last few years, but I don't collect the magazine so I can't pin-point. It was an article about the PS4's or something closely - very closely- related to the preservation of 1401 at the Smithsonian. I wish I had better threads for you "chasers". I did read the article.

Typically in research, when I hear someone adamantly recall such details, they have the wrong magazine and/or mischaracterize what was actually stated/shown.

Trains has not run an article on SR steam in ages. Perhaps you actually mean Classic Trains, which seemingly gets all the "historical" articles now?

Further, did/does the article in question cite a source for this information?

It might have been "Classic Trains", counselor. Same company, different veneer.