mincy21 -

This is interesting if it is in fact, true. A photo of the A. Philip Randolph museum is shown on page 29 of the NPS report. It is located in one of the row houses on Maryland Avenue. It does not have rail access. A move of the car to their museum site would have required a truck move and some interesting maneuvering, provided that there was even enough space to squeeze the car into the site. Perhaps that was why the car was eventually abandoned. Would be interesting to know how they acquired the car. A donation? Purchase? Or.....?


Les

I purchased the former CB&Q 480 sleeper from the East Troy RR Museum in the late 1970's. Mr. Bob Emmett purchased the car from me in the early 1980's as it matched a former NP Diner he owned.

The car is all original inside (or it was.) Unlike the preserved CB&Q cars "Savannah" and "Dubuque" (8-6-3-1's), the 480 (former "Chicago") was still with full Pullman carpet. The Savannah and Dubuque have both linoleum floors for dorm service.

Hubert

Hubert -

Thanks for the info on the sale (and resale) of CB&Q sleeping car #480. Still would be interesting to know if this car is still in existence there at NS's Calumet Yard. Also would be interesting to know to whom the car was going to at the Pullman complex. We apparently now have info that the Frisco diner/lounge was supposed to go to the A. Philip Randolph Pullman Porter museum, but what about the 480?



Les

According to a couple of reports CB&Q 480 went to the NS and will be assigned the number 16(2). NS 16 (1) was assigned to a former SOU 11 DB car named Royal Palm, but I don't know if that car ever carried an NS number.

Mike Palmieri - Fort Worth, Texas

Thanks, Mike, for the info on CB&Q #480 Chicago!

The Attached image was taken March 26th 2014 while passing through with work. I'd been keeping an eye on these two cars and at the time was worried what would come of the CB&Q Sleeper though now I can confirm that yes the Frisco Diner has been scrapped and the trucks and center plates saved, The Plan is for both the CB&Q Sleeper and leftover Frisco parts to make there way to Altoona (NS Special Equipment shops) I can also now confirm that yes the CB&Q Sleeper has made it to Altoona and is at the shops but I can not say the same for the trucks and center plates from the Frisco Diner, they were to be loaded into a Gondola and shipped, has this happened yet I don't know.

It is sad to see something like the photos posted by Mr. Pullman. I spent a fair bit of time in the Frisco diner when it was the 1501 "Connell-Kennedy" on the New New Georgia Railroad. I don't remember the specifics - seems it had something to do with the couplers - but for several years ('86-'88 at least) the Connell-Kennedy had to be coupled directly behind S&A 750, so most photos from the era show the car running coupled to 750's tender. We had planned to use the ex-Southern RPO 34 as the crew car, and did so in the first year or so of operation, but it was pulled from the consist and the dining car consistently ran coupled to 750. I always thought it was interesting that the letter, name and number boards were never painted the burgundy color used on all of the other lightweight cars in the consist. As far as I know they remained a Pullman green shade with gold or yellow lettering up to the end.

When I think and realize that was 30 years ago I'm surprised it lasted as long as it did. And there are other New Georgia cars I've recently stumbled upon that haven't fared much better. Just goes to show you that cars we ride in today, even in "preservation", won't necessarily survive another 20-30 years unless they are well cared for.

As of a couple of years ago, and organization I am familiar with was in contact with people who were trying to turn the Pullman complex, or at least part of it, into a museum.

Unfortunately, in my view, anyway, they had no interest in the shop itself or the cars. The museum was planned to stress the "culture" of Pullman and it's employees. There was to be much emphasis on the strike, the "plight" of those "forced" to live in company housing in a company complex, etc. The rest was going to be a very PC thing about Pullman Porters, Conductors, and other employees and all the "challenges" they faced in their careers.

Very little about the work they did, but a lot about hours, discrimination, etc.

In reading the response from Ranier Rails, I see no indication that this car was on Royal American Shows but two of the Frisco windows were removed and remained near winter quarters in a private individual's hand, so I know it was there from around 1972 to 1979, maybe longer.

The bad thing about the Frisco cars is that the steel car sides rotted out behind the stainless fluting. Museum of Transportation has/had an RPO that suffered that. The cars that the Frisco kept in service had the fluting removed. Some of them made it into work train service.

I owned the car, sold it to the A Philip Randolph Pullman Museum who abandoned the car in the NS yard and NS scrapped it several years ago

Not sure about the CB&Q car but I can confirm that the Tulsa was also cut up.

I'm seeking information on the TULSA. In 1972, it has been mentioned that the car was sold to C. Arch Bay which is a real estate company. At some point in the 1970s, this car was on the Royal American Shows. They stopped using the car in 1978. In 1990, this car was still in Marathon, Florida in Royal American Shows paint.

When did the the car get moved from Florida to Missouri and who owned it sitting in Florida?

Thanks,
Bob Cline

After more digging around, I have found that the there is an Oklahoma City 1401 and a Tulsa 1402. These are the ones I was looking for information on.

Any help would be appreciated.

Car Names and Consists by Robert J. Wayner simply lists these as Lounge Cars.