Yes. In order to win a war, you've got to throw
everything you have at the wall and use what sticks.

I personally am glad that we won that war.

I am sad that so much history was lost to the scrap
drives, but I'd rather have that than to have had our
nation loose the war.

Winning wars is important.

We made the sacrifice. It worked.

Another locomotive I heard that we kind of lost (as items was already wrecked) duting the WWII scrap drive was the one from the Buster Keaton movie The General.

"The Straight Dope" is/was a long-time syndicated column, now a website, that originated from the Chicago Reader, a weekly alternative newspaper, in 1973, and finally ceased distribution recently.

The premise of the (pre-internet) column was to ask "imponderable" questions that you might not otherwise be able to find an answer to, and/or might be in "poor taste" for a more "public" forum--a classic example being "Is it true what they say about Catherine the Great and the horse?" (Answer: No, but there was reason to not dismiss that out of hand....) "Cecil Adams," the column's originator, evolved into something of a research panel overseen by editor Ed Zotti, who continues to insist to this day that there was/is a real-life, highly irreverent Cecil Adams, hiding out somewhere.

https://www.timeout.com/chicago/things- ... ecil-adams

The column evolved over the years into also being a forum where the column's fans (labelled "the teeming millions") could essentially appeal to the columnist as a neutral, reasoned arbiter to "rule on" certain "great debates" such as the morality of marijuana being illegal. The column evolved five popular compilation books, which allowed the editors to collate several back-and-forth debates between readers and Cecil on many questions.

It's in this context that the scrap drive question was obviously asked. Note "Cecil's" slightly wishy-washy answer: the metal drives were necessary at least at the start, but the later rubber and paper drives were a waste of resources.

One of the salient points that might be related: Recently I've read no less than three separate "oral history" accounts from widely scattered locations of how the Great Depression not only forced major railroads to close down unnecessary tracks and facilities, but also to scrap as much as possible as soon as possible--the scrap being sold to offset business losses. One example: John Orr's account in Set Up Running of the wholesale "scorched-earth" destruction of the Ralston, Pa. terminal in July 1934. Assuming such accounts capture the prevailing mentality of the railroads in the era, there may have not been that much "spare scrap" left lying around by 1942..........

"HEY, JOE!! WHY DO YOU KEEP BANGING THOSE GARBAGE CAN LIDS ON THE GROUND SO LOUDLY?!?!?!"
"TO KEEP THE TIGERS AWAY!"
"THERE ISN'T A TIGER WITHIN TEN THOUSAND MILES OF HERE EXCEPT IN ZOOS!"
"THANKS TO ME!! YOU'RE WELCOME!!"

Of course the thrust of the story all changes if you find out later there really was a tiger nearby. I once met a fellow who was keeping Siberian tigers just three miles from where I lived. He told me the male had knocked out the lights in his enclosure which were 12' up-without his feet leaving the ground. Going out the door in the morning in our country location now took on a new wrinkle-how well was my neighbor doing in his keeping? (Ever play with a tiger kitten? Just like playing with every other kitten. Except it weighs 70 lbs. And is headed for 900. Changes how you look at kittens.)

And that doesn't answer the question of whether banging garbage can lids does anything to deter hungry tigers!

Sorting out causes and effects is one of the reasons historians argue (another being that arguing is a fun and educating game to play).

Why has the Rio Grande Southern captured so much attention? Especially compared to all the other impoverished short lines which disappeared without even much of a whimper. Certainly location was a big factor. Eking out a way to keep running in the face of diminishing and even non existent resources is another-how did they keep it going as long as they did? Why did they bother? Maybe they were just banging a garbage can lid. Maybe there was a tiger. But we are still arguing. Why?

Somebody told stories. In the stories was something to which we relate.

Watching the RGS #20 run down the track at CRRM and maybe even C&TS and DSNG will be a treat. An ancient locomotive running again with all the steam sound and fury. something of what I might have experienced had I stood trackside a hundred years ago.

But to get up before daylight and fire up an old and patched together piece of equipment that would be retired and scrapped anywhere else? Whose boiler you know is not so very safe? And then to take it out over a very tough mountain railroad with a train when you know the track, roadbed, bridges and so on are way past decent maintenance, too?

Robby is right (on the RGS #20 thread), that is part of the RGS story and why it gets told and should be. I am interested in why they did it whether it was worth doing or not in my opinion. One effect of them doing it is that someone still has the #20 for us to argue about. Maybe there was no tiger, but if later someone comes to very much value that particular kind of garbage can lid.....

My view of what to do about the next locomotive someone wants to scrap is changed because of the story of scrapping of what might have been a cherished "friend" but for a WWII scrapping. Which is interesting because thousands of other locomotives were scrapped which I don't think about much at all. And when I came around the corner in Dawson City one day and saw an example of what I thought I'd lost, I saw differently because of that scrapping. When they need help up in the Yukon with their little Brooks Mogul I will come to it as a different person.

The WWII scrappers gave me that and never knew it. And they knew (some of them) that in scrapping they were losing history. But (Surprise!) in scrapping they were also making it. And they thought it was about a tiger....

Timothy

And then there was the case of Oregon's Flora Logging Co. and its Carlton and Coast RR common carrier where WWII found all the equipment of a very large logging operation (including at least 10 locomotives) isolated in the remote woods by a forest fire which had destroyed a bunch of trestles:

http://brian894x4.com/CarltonandCoastRailroad.html

The goal was salvage not scrapping, but in salvaging for reuse most of what was salvaged would be scrapped as it lost its value over time and in a non war economy. I stumbled onto the remains in hunting some 50 years ago, and as I pieced together the story I've always wondered what I'd have found without the war and the salvage operation it caused.

Perhaps the answer is the proverbial hunt for lost locomotives which almost never turns anything up. A cutting torch and a truck in the face of high scrap prices is a cheap investment as Alexander's post describes.

Timothy

Between 1980's and 1990's, I spent a bunch of time in the west exploring old mining camps, scrap yards, etc., and saw a lot of really neat old stuff scrapped.
More recently, I've spent a bunch of time in the Yukon. There's still a lot of really amazing stuff hidden in the woods. Yes, that includes railroad stuff. Unfortunately, know one cares enough to do anything about it.
In 2016, I rescued an 1890's 0-6-0 Porter locomotive and dragged it home from the Yukon.
I must be the only one who appreciates it because, most look at it and tell me I'm crazy.
Perhaps, that's true.
Hopefully, a future generation appreciates my efforts to save it.
Whether it's saved or not, certainly won't change the history of man-kind.

In the meantime, I truly enjoy making and fixing stuff for it.

It can also be argued that a lot of stuff was saved because of WWII a lot of equipment that was going to be scrapped was put back into service as knee replacement can no longer be found since factorys changed over to building equipment for the war, in certain materials were very hard to come by.

Two of our cars at National Capital Trolley Museum survive because of WWII.

Capital Traction 27 was converted to one-man service to handle crush loads and was selected by Capital Transit as a relic and PR tool after the war.

WRECo 650 was retired in the late 1930s and then reactivated in the early years of the war. By 1944 enough PCCs arrived to permit WRECo 650 to be re-retired and preserved first with the Electric Railroaders Assoc, then Shore Line Trolley Museum before the car came home in 2002.

Wesley

what would be left had the war board allowed wholesale diesel replacement?