It seems many tourist railroads and museums get downright annoyed when asked about a particular piece of equipment (yes usually a steam locomotive) being restored or when it will be operating next. This seems so backwards to real world marketing. Disney has been building Star Wars Land for something like 3 years now... imagine if they were telling their employees not to talk about Star Wars land, or to just tell them "it will be finished when it's finished and if you want it finished faster why don't you make a donation." Umm.. no. Disney has signs up all over the parks reminding people that they are working on building a new attraction and they should come back and see it! They run behind the scenes videos interviewing the creators and builders. They are all about building awareness of the project they are working on. Even BEFORE they started building it they were talking about it. They would say things like "we don't have an exact time frame yet, but we can't wait to invite our guests to visit the world of star wars like never before."

Is there a timeline for pieces of equipment to be restored either cosmetically or operationally? If not.. why not?

How is your organization painting a picture of the future of your operation? 10 years from now will people want to come to the same old museum site and see the same old rusting equipment? Or in 10 years could you have cosmetically restored certain pieces... and have a major operating showpiece? If the answer is no... why is the answer no? And how can you change that answer to a yes?

When I ask, and yes I am guilty of the "when will it be running?" question, I try to ask it in terms of where the restoration is in its current form.

I spoke to someone recently in regards to ex. Southern Pacific 4-4-0 60 in Knoxville. I simply asked, "how far along are you?" Instead of "when will it be running?" The man (who was in authority at the TRR) explained what all they had finished and what all they were working on and we were able to have a great intelligent conversation on the restoration of it and W&L 203.

The when will it be running questions can create a false timeline that can become "truth" on sites like these and definitely on TO.

In a world where NOW is all anyone can expect I believe the best way to deflect the questions so as not to create a false timeline is to explain where you are in a certain project, and what needs to be done without putting a timeline or specific period on it.

Moreover, we can't be annoyed with people showing interest in our beloved interests. Just my $.02.

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If we have an actual timeline/schedule for a restoration piece, I will mention the approximate date. If the piece inquired about does not have an actual timeline/schedule laid out, I will tell the inquirer that the piece will be worked on when we have the money and labor available.

Our museum works to improve our vehicle display and storage area constantly. Restored or operational coaches are kept in the front, behind the vintage automobiles. Some of the automobiles are listed for sale and the ones that are not for sale are swapped out every six months or so-various local collectors or museums will permit us to display vehicles from their collections.

All of the coaches have signage with photographs showing what the coach looked like when in service. Some unrestored coaches also have models of the coach, showing what it looked like in service. The models are all manufactured on site by one of our volunteers.

Operational restored buses are used for museum outreach. As Tucson has a large car collector community, we have a lot of car shows. The buses are sent out to certain community events and car shows to exhibit. Families love the buses-they're the one exhibit where you're encouraged to get up close and get in the vehicle. The buses allow us to take part of the museum to where the people are, instead of depending on them to come to us. They also attract a great deal of attention when being driven on the roads. Our buses served in Arizona and many folks still have memories of when they were in service. When I've driven our Old Pueblo Transportation coach, I've had people follow me, waiting for an opportunity to get a photo of the coach on the road.

The furthest we've gone (to date) with a bus for exhibition was to Bisbee, Arizona with our 1938 Yellow Coach which was Warran-Bisbee Bus Lines No. 8. We shipped it down on a member's tractor trailer for display at a community event there and drove it around town to replicate historic photos that we had, showing the bus at different locations. The local sponsors heavily advertised the appearance of the bus and arranged for secure storage at the local school district bus yard. I went down on the day of the event and was the first to arrive. The yard manager let me in and informed me that if we needed any assistance, he'd have the staff assist us and we were welcome to use their employee facilities. He remarked that he'd never seen a bus get so much attention as our No. 8. People were stopping by the yard, peering through the fence to view the bus since it arrived the day before. The manager said that finally, the crowds were enough that he walked out to the fence and informed the people that they were welcome to come inside the yard to view the bus. The townspeople were thrilled to see the bus (for the first time in over fifty years) and the school district staff were thrilled to have an opportunity to have a hand in bringing the bus back for a visit.

Community outreach has been a major factor in the success of our museum. We are fortunate that since our collection includes buses in addition to the streetcars, we are not restricted to on site activities.

When a project is funded largely by donations, the organization should damn well be giving regular updates, and keeping things fresh. There are several projects that are excelling in this area.

However, I can think of several, donation driven (major) projects that are essentially dead in the water these days, meanwhile many, many dollars have been spent to-date. And heaven forbid you ask for an update..

There is certainly a fine line to these things, but organizations do have some responsibility.

Alan, That sounds like such a wonderful museum. The partnership you described with local car collectors is such a great thing. It seems that many railroads could create a really neat "temporary" exhibit by partnering with a local car club and staging a certain era of vehicle around railroad equipment from that time frame. And if that works to attract new visitors, plan a different exhibit the following year. etc.

And yes, getting out into the communities is key.

I think this line of questions is the biggest stumbling block many organizations have. They're too busy running as fast as they can (or so they think) to stay in one place. Or the leadership of their organization isn't stable or interested enough in improvement to even ponder the questions in the first place. If the growth of crowd funding can teach anything to our industry, its that people who donate money are far more likely to open their wallets, repeatedly, if the explanation of what their donations will be used for is detailed and updated frequently. 5 year and 10 year plans for your organization should be public and shared repeatedly. Being able to point to a track record of doing what you say you're going to do is a great way to get a leg up on grant applications or soliciting donations from outside sources.

This is really an unfair comparison, because Disney, for one, has the resources to ensure that the project stays on schedule. What are the chances that the Disney BoD gets a report stating that the opening will be delayed a year because there is no money for the roof membrane?

Conversely, in our industry this is the norm rather than the exception, for both not-for-profit volunteer groups and for profit concerns, too. Nobody in railway preservation has cubic dollars to spend, as much as they'd like to. Maybe the Union Pacific, but no one else. Unless one has a budget prepared that covers replacing every single part with new, there is always going to be something that crops up that blows the budget and makes the project fall behind schedule... or just stop, pending raising more funds.

I agree that regular updates are important, but for the most part, the milestones should be the completion of listed items, or dollars raised, not dates.

Leads to less disappointment that way.

Actually... Disney has a long history of major attractions not opening on schedule. Even now, less than a year away from the expected opening, there has not been any official opening dates for Star Wars lands on either coast.

But you really missed the point if that’s what you got out that. Disney paints the picture of what they are adding and why you want to come back. They’ve been advertising Star Wars land for 3 years. They encourage people to dream with them about the future.

I do recall at one of the D23 events Disney claimed Star Wars land would be open Q1 2019 and when I was last in one man's dream in Hollywood Studios the completion date was listed as Fall 2019. So while I'll admit no dates were given, the time frame does appear to have slipped.

Back to the question at hand, I am absolutely guilty of not wanting to answer when any piece will be completed. Generally for two reasons, things happen in any restoration that can delay a timeline and second I had very little control in my position to the priority of things being worked on. I may know an internal goal for the date of completion but I know sometimes priorities shift and I certainly know in the real world sh*t happens.

But you make my point... Disney DOES have cubic dollars... and they still can't keep on schedule. What chance do the rest of us have?

I'm never annoyed no matter how many times I discuss the same project. Prime case in point is our 250T crane - I get asked a lot of when it will be running, I'll tell them what's been done, what it needs now and what the plans are. I'll explain that the timeline depends on available dollars and manpower. We hadn't been able to work on it much at all last year due to more pressing projects but just the fact that I was willing to talk at length about it, we now have some experienced volunteers willing to to get their hands dirty next summer with the hope of having it do some work someday. You never know when you might just snag a donation or another volunteer....

Disney is no different than the rest of us. They are a business with set budgets for operations and projects. They just work on a different scale.

I wasn’t suggesting we should be able to tell people a set date, rather we should encourage the interest in our future and the future of the preserved equipment, rather than being annoyed when questions are asked.

Our communications environment, and as a result our expectations, have changed completely from the days in the late 1980s when the boiler for Strasburg's ex-N&W 475 sat outside the north end of the Strasburg shop on cribbing, with three-foot-high whitewash letters facing 741 shouting "DON'T ASK WHEN!!"

On the other hand, with modern networking, if you don't give some answer, someone else will on your behalf, and it will most likely not be what you want to have heard. It's a harsh but true reality.

However, the biggest problem BY FAR with the entire dilemma, and the time when it really IS "annoying," is perfectly encapsulated by this Family Guy running gag from a few years ago:

https://youtu.be/d-BfjHbHj60?t=16

If you do this to participants of National Novel Writing Month, I assure you that you WILL be bodily injured in short order.

The reality is you can never keep railfans happy. You could restore every piece in the collection for millions, and still, the number and level of complaints/problems will continue to pour in. It's a demographic that can never be satisfied or pleased.

This may seem like a pessimistic view, but the longer I am in this world the more I am convinced of it.

Example: You will pull a piece from the collection, pour thousands of hours and many more dollars into it, but one hundred rail fans will chime in that they prefer the livery from 19XX not 19XX. Therefore, you have failed a majority of them. Sure, there will be a great mix of positive feedback, but you are still ridiculed to the end of time about it. What also happens is you publicly promote a project, market it, share all of the details, but again, responses are typically: "Cool, but why aren't you resoring x, y, and z?" blah blah. It never ends. It's a circle that we go around and around forever and ever.

While there are some railfans that maybe just like to complain, I think you are being way too negative about most railfan comments. I visit Strasburg regularly, and when I see the Camelback in the yard I usually comment, to myself, it would be so cool to see that running! That doesn't mean I'm not satisfied with the Strasburg, they run steam more than any other standard gauge operation in the country and they have the most lovely fleet of rolling stock anyone could ask for. It means they have some cool engines that are not running that would be really cool to see run. Of course I would love to see the #31 run again, and the Camelback, and the Long Island Engine... and why stop there... let's get some of the engines across the street restored while we are at it!

I think this opens up a bigger question... what are we wanting from our visitors? If they don't care and ask "why don't you just scrap that old rusting stuff" and don't realize the historical value we shake our heads and say "the general public just doesn't get it." And if a railfan comes by and says "Oh wow a Camelback! Why don't you restore that! It would be the only one running!" we shake our heads and say "railfans just can't be pleased."