Indiana Transportation Museum Given until July 12 to Move

AlcoC420 · **Joined:** Wed Dec 15, 2010 8:17 pm **Posts:** 270

That ex-MLW SW1 was a Cargill east of Tipton, Indiana. It spun a rod bearing for lack of lubrication, the remote control failed to shut it down.

It is sitting on one freight car truck.

ebtrr · **Posted:** Wed Jul 04, 2018 10:37 am

Ironhorse Railroad wrote:

How do I contact Chris Campbell about saving the Milw rd sw1?

Pictures were just posted to Ahead on the Torch of the cowling and cab cut up. The frame and engine were still in one piece at the time of the photo.

https://www.facebook.com/n/?groups%2FAOTTORCH%2Fpermalink%2F1580982532030558%2F&aref=1530713336449408&medium=email&mid=5702caf1606aeG43fa4233G5702cf8ac0980G96&bcode=2.1530713337.AbyvTGsKivv1Qd-mTHg&n_m=ebtrr%40spikesys.com

Chris Campbell can re reached via Facebook.

https://www.facebook.com/soup24?fref=gc&dti=379577942171029

I expect this is not the end of the scrapping. AOTT seems to have the most up to date info so I suggest anyone interested in trying to save equipment keep an eye on the posts there.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/AOTTORCH/

ebtrr · **Posted:** Wed Jul 04, 2018 10:40 am

AlcoC420 wrote:

That ex-MLW SW1 was a Cargill east of Tipton, Indiana. It spun a rod bearing for lack of lubrication, the remote control failed to shut it down.

It is sitting on one freight car truck.

Based on what I have heard, it donated one truck to ITM's Soo SW unit.

googanelli · **Posted:** Wed Jul 04, 2018 11:38 am

WIth all of the scrapping happening, do we have any reason to believe that the city, sheriff, etc will be unwilling to work with motivated sellers? Do we know if they haven't contact someone like Ozark Mountain rail about possibly selling equipment to recover costs? It's not going to cost the city a dime to keep the stuff on property after the eviction other than insurance. I'm assuming they've already been paying that to mitigate lawsuits already.

I understand that we can't save everything, but in this day and age, scrapping of engines in good display shape should never be happening.

Joe

bigjim4life · **Posted:** Wed Jul 04, 2018 11:52 am

Something is wrong with the above link to view photos, but for those of you who don’t believe regarding the SW-1 being scrapped...

Tom F · **Joined:** Mon Jul 02, 2018 8:04 pm **Posts:** 314

This is terrible. Milwaukee road clubs and fans are some of the most dedicated people I have ever met. They will be losing it over that one!

If this person is so hell bent on scrapping equipment why don't he start with the practically worthless rail cars? Seriously you are going to scrap a fireless steam locomotive over a double door box car?

Tomorrow I will be calling and E-mailing any Indiana news station or newspaper and reporting this travesty. I will also never visit the Indian Transportation Museum if they ever re open again.

Alexander D. Mitchell IV · **Posted:** Wed Jul 04, 2018 3:11 pm

Tom F wrote:

If this person is so hell bent on scrapping equipment why don't he start with the practically worthless rail cars? Seriously you are going to scrap a fireless steam locomotive over a double door box car?

1) There are several major unannounced deals being made in the background of this chaos. There have been reports that several of the "practically worthless rail cars" have already been marked with the reporting marks or identity of a new owner that has stepped in. I can guarantee you that you will not hear any more on that deal until they show up at their purported new home, if the identity is as rumored.

2) Some equipment in question is privately owned, and reportedly the subject of separate deals being brokered with the authorities to remove in a more timely fashion.

3) Scrappers usually start with what's closest to the entrance, or at the near end of the siding, or whatever they can get to the easiest first. I "lost" a pair of two-bay hopper cars I had arranged for donation in the 1980s from a power plant when the scrapper started at the "wrong end" of the siding. (And, based on that and other experiences, I wouldn't trust a scrapper or their employees for one millisecond to get things right, even a reputable one that has worked with rail preservationists in thee past. Anyone working to save any ITM rolling stock or anything else there would be best advised to mark the pieces VERY prominently and assign a supervisor on site full time simply to guard the potential acquisitions--as I've had to do elsewhere with some pieces in the past for others.)

kevin kohls · **Joined:** Tue May 03, 2005 8:35 pm **Posts:** 298

John T:
Here we go again; we're about to loose some more rail cranes ! Oh the stupidity !

Kevin K.

Tom F · **Joined:** Mon Jul 02, 2018 8:04 pm **Posts:** 314

That SW-1 will slow the scrappers down for a while. Fuel tank we have to be removed, punched and drained. Oil will have to be drained from the motor. That frame is several inches thick and covered in grease and oil making it difficult to start a cut. We ran our oxygen at 130 PSI to cut through those frames using a 6 foot long cutting torch. Even then it was very difficult as you could not see if you were penetrating through the frame since you were on top of it. When I worked as a locomotive mechanic in Tacoma, we were contracted to cut up six BC rail electric locomotives. It took months to cut those up. The company eventually gave up and paid a scrap yard to get rid of them. Hopefully this outfit is unexperienced with locomotive scrapping. Until now they have been using a crawler to rip sheet metal off of cars which is quick and easy. The very time consuming and expensive process of torch cutting will be another story.

Alexander D. Mitchell IV · **Posted:** Wed Jul 04, 2018 4:14 pm

Until someone has the time to properly organize and transcribe a running list of confirmed saves, possible saves, and torch victims--preferably in a separate thread, please--the best place to monitor what at least three wags have termed "the suicide watch" at ITM is on this Facebook thread:

https://www.facebook.com/groups/AOTTORCH/

And if and when someone composes said roster/list, please refrain from spreading unfounded rumors or disclosing unannounced deals being brokered.

BigBoy 4023 · **Joined:** Tue Dec 11, 2012 1:40 am **Posts:** 489

Do we know for sure if the Milw F B unit is on the torch list? There were a couple individuals looking for F B units when the NS locos went to the scrapper.

Robert

Pegasuspinto · **Joined:** Fri Mar 26, 2010 11:43 am **Posts:** 783

I've seen an experienced crew knock down a full size 'modern' freight loco in less then a week. Prime mover was done with a crane and the fuel tank was cut loose and dropped on the tracks, full. A bunch of shady looking trucks with 55 gallons drums would parade through and the fuel was gone, and then they just cut the tanks down with the torches. Of course, things like the gen and traction motors were moved offsite for further processing.

I made a deal with them and bought 3 of the 2-71 detroit diesels with generators used in the old reefer cars. Loaded them one at a time in a 3/4 ton truck, sold 2 of them and kept the 3rd. I'm pretty sure the freon in those cars was properly recycled right back into nature. They could knock down a freight car in about two days.

robertmacdowell · **Posted:** Wed Jul 04, 2018 7:57 pm

googanelli wrote:

WIth all of the scrapping happening, do we have any reason to believe that the city, sheriff, etc will be unwilling to work with motivated sellers? Do we know if they haven't contact someone like Ozark Mountain rail about possibly selling equipment to recover costs? It's not going to cost the city a dime to keep the stuff on property after the eviction other than insurance.

Not how it works. My understanding is that if prior to the 13th you possess a bill of sale for a piece of equipment, then you'll need to talk to the city of Noblesville, as apparently you will be one among several private owners who also has Private owner equipment in the compex.

Anything that ITM still has not sold by the 13th is deemed abandoned property, literally, by the order. Indiana eviction law has a whole procedure on that, but that law is optimized for residential evictions, so its applicability here is questionable. If that law or a comparable law does apply, ITM would be entitled to recover any of their tools-of-their-trade without settling up for the total expense of the eviction, so presumably operating passenger engines and their cars. Within 90 days, i.e. Mid October, ITM can buy the rest of their stuff back by paying the costs of eviction, storage and cleanup. After 90 days the stuff becomes the property of the city or warehouseman and is sold to pay for costs of eviction, storage and cleanup.

They are not at liberty to wheel and deal; they'd have to make some sort of open offer for the stuff. So you'll have to high-bid for it. And could find yourself biddinng against ITM. You could also find yourself bidding against the new incoming heritage operation (since he has a monstrous advantage of not having to move it by truck). I have a hunch this concept of "acquisition via abandonment" is very much in the mind of the city/new operator.

This is also perilously close to a 5th Amendment "taking".

wilkinsd · **Posted:** Wed Jul 04, 2018 9:31 pm

robertmacdowell wrote:

googanelli wrote:

WIth all of the scrapping happening, do we have any reason to believe that the city, sheriff, etc will be unwilling to work with motivated sellers? Do we know if they haven't contact someone like Ozark Mountain rail about possibly selling equipment to recover costs? It's not going to cost the city a dime to keep the stuff on property after the eviction other than insurance.

Not how it works. My understanding is that if prior to the 13th you possess a bill of sale for a piece of equipment, it is yours, and you will then have to work with the city; rumor says they aim to be amenable.

Anything that ITM still has not sold by the 13th is deemed abandoned property and that doesn't mean what you think. Read the Indiana eviction laws. The landlord must convey it all into the hands of a warehouseman, who cannot be the city since self-help evictions are not allowed in Indiana. The warehouseman must release to ITM a week's worth of seasonal clothing, anything they need to raise children, and any tools-of-their-trade (idea being they need to earn money to get the rest of their stuff out of hock) - so presumably operating passenger engines and their operating coach fleet and other basic necessities of trade.

Within 90 days, i.e. Mid October, ITM can buy the rest of their stuff back by paying the costs of eviction, storage and cleanup. I don't know how it works if the cleanup costs haven't been tallied yet; I'd think they would have to hand over the stuff for the bills run up so far, they couldn't delay. ITM would still be liable for the bills which roll in later.

After 90 days the stuff becomes the property of the city or warehouseman and is sold to pay for costs of eviction, storage and cleanup. They are not at liberty to wheel and deal; they'd have to make some sort of open offer for the stuff. So you'll have to high-bid for it. And could find yourself bidding against ITM.

It's conceivable the city could stick a sign on the place "Acme Warehouseman", move nothing, wait 90 days, and sell the remains in-situ, with the high bidder being the new incoming heritage operation (since he has a monstrous advantage of not having to move it by truck). I have a hunch this is what this has always been about.

When did you pass the Indiana Bar, or of any other state?

I’d like to see your statutory citations. It sounds like you are quoting law with regard to residential evictions, not commercial. The laws are quite a bit different. Even a non attorney who is sophisticated enough would be able to ascertain that.

You loose even more credibility by being an “ITM Truther” by day propogating the conspiracy theory, without evidence, that this was a ploy to give the new operator equipment. If you’d been paying attention, you’d know that the new operator already has a full train set that’s far nicer then anything at ITM, including locomotives.

robertmacdowell · **Posted:** Wed Jul 04, 2018 10:57 pm

I have no idea what that malarkey was about. Mine was exactly what it says on the tin, a comically straight reading of Indiana's eviction law. No need to cite, a child can find it. If I am wrong I am sure a competent person will kindly correct me.

The moving-in-railroad's advantage is hardly conspiratorial; it's obvious: they have intrinsic advantage on bidding as they don't have to move it, whilst anyone else does. All I am saying is that the incoming railroad and city may have expected most of ITM's collection to be left behind and passed along thusly... and they may be getting a rude surprise.

There is fiscal inefficiency in organization X paying a fortune to truck a bunch of equipment out only to have organization Y pay a fortune to truck a bunch of comparable equipment in. Such inefficiencies generally get solved with a handshake and a check. Not here I guess.

A fellow posted on a help forum, "my mates invited me to their friendly game. When I play, I'm all-in! I ruthlessly taunt my opponents to demoralize, demean my mates to goad them into playing harder, and are much louder than they are, and damn I love it! But my friends are distancing and becoming hostile to me in our regular life... Why? All that sports talk stays on the field, it's nothing, how do I get them to get that?" The answer of course is... you can't.