I agree. I'm not a rabid railfan, so the only reason I visit a RR museum is for the experience of riding a train or seeing something I'll never see again (Streamliners at Spencer for example). Stuffed and mounted locomotives hold no interest for me. BTW, I'm 65 and retired professional diesel mechanic.

I'm 64, when I was a kid, I was mostly discouraged by the adults in hobby shops/museums/train clubs. Most groups were very cliquish, the museum I volunteered for hazed me constantly, gave me all the worst jobs, then ran me off when we actually got something restored. There HAVE been a few exceptions over the years, but in my experience this is typical.

Ever since then, I have been saying that if the stuff being restored was to have a future, maybe they should try being nice when new folks get interested. Pretty much nobody listened. I've given up waiting for anybody to admit I was right, too.

The worst example I've seen is a very large hobby shop staffed by a lot of hard core narrow gauge modelers, I won't mention their name. Every year around Christmas time, lots of single moms would come in wanting trainsets for their kids. These guys not only wouldn't help them, but they stood around making fun of them. It continued when they came in after Christmas wanting help with expanding their kid's setups. Often I would wait on these ladies when I saw this, even though I didn't work there. Unlike the store employees I sympathized because of what I went through when I was younger. (I might also add that helping these women was the only way that most of those clerks would EVER have a chance of getting a date with a real living, breathing, human, female.) Oh yea, that was a few years ago, NOW this place is shutting down....

As for modeling, builders are getting rare, most customers now see model trains as an extension of their computer, parts and kits are disappearing. The collectors of years past who would pay top dollar for specific models are dying off, there are not enough younger people who can tell the differences anymore, so the bottom is falling out of the brass market.

On the other hand, working railroaders have almost always been good to me. Before I quit, I made sure that the those museum guys got to see the pictures of me running an NdeM 4-8-4 when I was 14. It is the bona fide employees of real railroads that encouraged my interest, it is because of them that I was hooked.

BUT, the big rrs won't even let retirees on the property now, kids and railfans have a tough time getting to hang around even if the employees are fine with it. In this area we are more fortunate than most, I can suggest UP Steam to anybody who wants to see the real McCoy.

For all the criticism of Thomas cartoons, in the future I'd much rather deal with kids who grow up watching them, then the ones raised on Gangsta rap videos. I had high hopes that their new PORTER character, which looks so much like my Coronet Phosphate #6, would attract some kids to the cause who might care for her someday. Like so many of my great ideas, that has not materialized. Watching TV is a lot easier than actually doing anything useful.

When I started out in preservation, nobody had to explain what work was to me, but that was long ago. I also agree that cyber railroading is a bit like having an inflatable girlfriend....

Nobody will miss me when I'm gone, either.

The decline is due to the fact maney railroad museums are more like fraternities for old people who you gotta get "IN" with before you can run the equipment. The orginazation I am with is an exception to that rule and we have gotten maney young volenteers. Other orginazations I have been a part of in the past, for the listed reasons the young volenteers never tend to stay.

Just an observation; it is a rare person who has developed a like in a hobby or other interest at a young age and says active through their teenage, young adult and middle age years. First it's sex, then kids and then paying for college before time and other resources become available.

So many hobbies appears to be older and gray. With one hobby I've been active in for 35 years, the naysayers have been declaring the hobby will be dead in five years for at least the past 30 years.

An exception? Toy trains. Very difficult to keep young kids interested in this. The price of new stuff doesn't help. Simple things might help, like removing the tint on modern diesel locomotives so you can actually tell there are PEOPLE in that locomotive. Another? A return of wood and metal shop and a refocus on the trades in high school. When everyone has a college degree, said degree won't be worth anything.

Bob

This has been my experience as well. I'm one of the rare people in the mid 20's age group, but I feel exactly as you do. So many of the 'old-timers' are so cliquey that it's very difficult to get your foot in the door. People are always trying to brainstorm different ways to get young people involved. They don't realize that they, themselves, are often some of the biggest obstacles to young people who might have some interest.

I'm about 7 years from retiring. When I retire, I'll have tons of free time. However, I'm contemplating leaving rail preservation/operations entirely because of the cliques, favoritism, and related stuff at the museum where I've volunteered for the last 12 years (museum name withheld).

I've recruited new volunteers, trained new volunteers, donated money, raised money, and have been called a role model for how I interact with families/kids (i.e. major revenue source). In rail ops I have never put anything on the ground, split a switch, broken safety rules, etc. But despite that, I cannot break through the wall, so to speak, and get selected to attend engineer school. The "paid my dues" types, the cliques, man the golf cart during major events and/or just operate the locomotives. I don't mind the other jobs, but after 12 years on my feet, I'd like to see opportunities for better things...but I won't hold my breath.

Given that, I find Habitat For Humanity and other volunteer activities more rewarding, and more worthy of my time.

I, too, am among the younger crowd in the rail preservation world. I could go on about the bad experiences I have had with the "old heads", but I would also have to tell you about the insane amount of history and knoledge that has been handed down by members of the small group of "experienced" people willing to pass it on to those who are willing to carry it on. I could also tell you about the young "foamers" who can't concentrate on the tasks at hand if a train is moving within sight. But I would also have to tell you about the incredibly hard working, young man, who spends every hour that he is not working, repairing and upgrading air brake systems on vintage passenger cars. That is, when he is not being one of our better conuctors. It is so hard to not let the negative completely destroy an experience. As a couple people on this board know, I have delt with, and continue to deal with personnel issues, as well as financial, equipment, etc. We recently have seen a group of younger people stick around that seem to truly care and want to see change for the better. Sometimes it seems like a battle that can't be won. Others, we see a light at the end of the tunnel.

One thing I try to do when I am on crew is interact with people. If I am brakeman or engineer, I don't sit in the cab when we get back to the station. I stand next to our loco and greet people as they walk by. I thank them. I ask the kids if they had fun, and sometimes a high five. If it is appropriate, I let people into the cab. I let kids ring the bell. Somebody always gets a surprise cab ride after the last run, when we have to service the cars. The reactions are like nothing else. Two weeks ago, I watched a couple in there late 50s turn into a couple of kids for a half hour. Remember that feeling?

Times have changed. It is up to us to get people interested. To show them how to line a switch for a movement. Let them blow the horn or whistle. Show them how, why and what it was, or could still be. That is our job. Just my humble opinion.

They are, but they're not the kid's toy market.

You can find plenty of stuff at a decent price. A quick search on Amazon revealed a Durango & Silverton set for $135, complete with engine, cars, track and transformer. Granted, this is no brass model. To start with, the gauge is wrong. The open car looks pretty accurate, the other two are just repaints of generic cars. Can't really see the loco, but I'm sure it too is just one that looks reasonably close from 10 feet away that is painted with the D&S scheme.

Still, it's a decent set and the price isn't terrible. I suspect you could find it cheaper, Amazon's prices on model stuff tend to be about list.

Some of the organizations in railroad history and railroad preservation are contributing to their own decline with the obscure way that they write their newsletter descriptions of their meetings and activities. I get many newsletters from groups, including a large number of e-newsletters. Some of them I am no longer a member, others I helped with projects, and I appreciate that they keep sending them to me. However a surprising number of the newsletters fail to clearly state the date, time and location of their activities, or in some cases are arranged in a way that makes it difficult to find the announcements relating to their meetings and events. Considering that these newsletters are going out to an aging audience with possibly diminished vision you would think that this information should at least be consistently located within the newsletter and prominently displayed. It should not be necessary for the recipient of an e-newsletter have to also navigate to your website to check for the date and location of your event, it is so much more efficient to put all that information in front of the reader to begin with.

PC

[quote="RCD"] Other orginazations I have been a part of in the past, for the listed reasons the young volenteers never tend to stay.[/quote]

Oh, I don't know. I seem to recall a situation where a certain young volunteer took it upon himself to use his personal climbing equipment to turn one such "orginazations" shop facility into his own private jungle gym, was caught, and thus began his "part of in the past" status.

Unsafe, impulsive and/or unauthorized activity has no place in a railroad museum environment. Some of the frustrations cited by various young or formerly-young posters in this thread may well be valid, but based on the foregoing it should perhaps be born in mind that people nursing an aggrievement will have sometimes seen and heard only what they wanted to. Supervision, risk management, and ensuring the best interests of a museum's property do not always equate - if we are actually being objective - to the systematic oppression and exclusion of volunteers on grounds of youthfulness alone. Indeed, an inability to comprehend such things objectively may sometimes be part of the problem.

Without naming names, but based on decades of experience, I have learned a lot over the past year or so. One such older organization did their very best to drive away anyone with talent, young or old, but the real damage was in driving away not just the young, but a whole generation of young blood. As this keyed up some years before, the younger generation, really kids, were exposed to infighting among the older board members which really split the organization. Ultimately, that same older group who forced the split and remained, then drove away this next generation. Today, this young team is kicking serious ass at another tourist line, while the original organization that they left has some serious issues.

The bottom line is that I am convinced that there is indeed a future whether as volunteers or even as collectors based on this young blood. Give them time and they will be buying, although they may just decide to buy a full sized locomotive instead. But, as an older volunteer, give them the opportunity and proper guidance, and then stand back. The work will get done and probably far quicker than expected. Be sure to thank them and recognize them for their efforts. This is important. If anything, perhaps its time for some of the older folks to let go, turn it over to this young crowd. That's my view anyway.

I find this thread to be very interesting. I am almost 55, so older than some, not as old as some. I am old enough to have experienced many of the things that have had the door closed for the current and future generations for sure. Just some of the things that I found were fantastic experiences that really couldn't happen today.

1) I was 11, my friend and I were looking through windows at a fire truck factory (Peter Pirsch). The security guard came out and asked, "Hey, you guys breaking windows?" "No, we are just looking at fire trucks!" "Well, why don't you come in and get a better look?" He took us inside the closed factory and took us on a tour of everything! We were inside almost 3 hours! Today, he would be arrested.

2) April 1970 in Cairo Illinois. We camped at the State Patrol station as my dad couldn't find a campsite for the night. That morning, my brothers and sisters were running down by the Ohio river when a tug boat turned and ran up to the shore. All 6 of us scrambled on and down the river we went! I got a tour of the engine room, galley, and the pilot house. We probably were gone over 40 minutes! Today the crew would surely be in trouble. When we got to New Orleans, we ended up going on another boat with the same type of experience!

3) A friend of mine was an engineer for Milwaukee Road, then Soo Line and then CP Rail. He let me ride along and even run the GP-38-2 and spot cars.

4) This is one that really could never happen. My brothers and I were on a fly in fishing trip in Canada. We were flying a commercial airline out of Winnipeg Manitoba in a DC-3. My dad was a former Navy pilot with multi engine rating, and got to talking with the captain. Before long, my dad was up in the cockpit and he was flying the plane! How long ago has it been since a passenger ended up in the cockpit and nobody gave it a second thought. Dad even put it in his log book!

I am sure I have more, just off the top of my head, but there is something lost in our world today that these types of interactions are a thing of the past.

Steve

My hero.

What's striking is there seems to be little to no effort on behalf of the industry to develop docent training -- i.e. "How to Interact With People" or to develop skills like this at all.

For some, doing that could potentially take away the fun of all the fun train train stuff.

The reason for the steep decline in interest in all things steam is quite obvious. Unless a person was born no later than about 1940 they have no growing up association with steam and thus no memories etc.

Just go to any chapter meeting of one of the railroad hysterical societies and look around the room and guess the average age of those in attendance. If you find 10% or more in the room to be under 30 years old that will be exceptional. The few meetings I've attended of late I'd guess the median age was at least 65,... maybe older??

Another factor of course is the younger generations total devotion to their digital slave masters. I was riding Amtrak's # 6 not long ago through the stunningly beautiful Red Rocks canyon ( truly one of the most majestic sceneries in all of No. America) and the youngsters in the sightseeing car with me were all buried in their devices with zero interest in the passing scene.

I'm grateful to have been an active part of the mainline steam scene in the 60's and 70's when there was an ample audience of steam lovers both inside and outside the industry.

Ross Rowland

I was born in 1945 and can still remember steam in active service (PRR ended steam in 1957). My grandfather was a MOW employee for the PRR. To him it was just a hard, dirty, backbreaking job, but I became fascinated with trains at an early age. I can relate to what Ross said in his post. I have a laptop, but have yet to see the need for a smartphone. It annoys me to go into a store and see nearly everyone under my age bracket walking around like zombies glued to their little phones, bumping into displays and other shoppers. By the way, my first real "railfan excursion" was on a Horseshoe Curve trip on Sunday, Sep 13, 1970. I had just been discharged from the Navy and wanted to ride a real steam excursion. The trip utilized NKP 759 which was owned by a frequent contributor on this forum. I'm somewhere way back in the consist on the side of the train facing into the curve.