They do.

More from Paul LaPierre of the ESRM:

The issue is with some neighbors, not the County. A certain environmentalist gadfly and railroad hater uses some easily influenced locals as stand-ins for her arguments to resist any activity by the CMRR or the ESRM. She tried to block the building of our car barn two years ago, directly and through the County Planning Board, and was unsuccessful. Frustrating! Now she is raising the straw man of the ESRM building a rail yard to actually serve the needs of the CMRR. It's not working, as the Shandaken Town Building Inspector and the Town Supervisor have approved our activity. This weekend we will be laying track to the barn in order to get our steam loco, #23, off the County-owned ROW and into our barn.

The ultimate plan is to have all of our track on our own property, so that we will be free of County control with respect to our museum and equipment. We will be able to move our cars and loco on our own track as needed for restoration and display.

Paul LaPierre

The facebook post referenced above is not at all correct from the quick review I just did of the current Ulster County TIP

http://ulstercountyny.gov/sites/default/files/documents/planning/Final%20DRAFT%20UCTC%202017-21%20TIP.pdf

The rail / trail projects noted in this much newer TIP do not add up to that dollar amount.


All that aside trail proponents far outnumber rail proponents in most communities. And in Ulster County it is obvious the trail people out number the rail people. Even though most on this board are pro rail, how many of us live, vote and pay taxes in Ulster County? I would be surprised if it more than half a dozen. The locals are going to get what they want regardless of the opinion of the masses from outside the community.

The Daily Freeman is pro-trail and anti-CMRR. They have now turned on the Empire State Railway Museum.

http://www.dailyfreeman.com/general-new ... qus_thread

Railway Museum officials deny building a Phoenicia graveyard for Catskill Mountain Railroad equipment
By Jay Braman Jr., news@freemanonline.com

POSTED: 06/08/16, 1:13 PM EDT

PHOENICIA, N.Y. >> Empire State Railway Museum officials quickly have denied allegations that the non-profit organization is preparing its property for storage of train equipment of the Catskill Mountain Railroad.

In early 2014, the Railway Museum began construction of a 96-foot-long, 40-foot-wide, 26-foot-tall barn next to the museum and along Lower High Street. The new building was constructed for restoration of museum railcars currently stored on tracks and exposed to the elements.

The building has been complete for more than a year, but the museum has yet to lay rail lines through the structure to get trains in and out.

Museum spokesman Paul LaPierre said rail construction has been fast tracked recently because the museum is under the gun to get a steam locomotive it owns off Ulster County-owned track.

When the rail construction started up recently, neighbor Anique Taylor complained to town officials that it appeared to her that the museum was poised to accept the equipment owned by the Catskill Mountain Railroad, a for-profit entity with a presence a stone’s throw away. The Catskill Mountain Railroad long-term lease of Ulster & Delaware tracks owned by Ulster County expired May 31. Those tracks run past the holdings of both the museum and the Catskill Mountain Railroad.

Taylor and other neighbors last month fought successfully to halt railroad plans to build a rail yard on its side of the tracks. The concern was that the railroad would stockpile equipment there with the possibility that it would become a railroad graveyard where the iron transportation of yesteryear would rust away and become a permanent eyesore. With those plans cancelled, Taylor feared the museum was making room for the Catskill Mountain Railroad gear.

LaPierre said this is not the case.

LaPierre, who is overseeing the work, said the museum simply is cleaning up the land and foundation reinforcement of the museum and the recently erected barn.

“The purpose is to make way for two sidings on our property, leading from our barn so that ... the (museum), not the Catskill Mountain Railroad, can move (seven) (museum) cars and our steam locomotive in and out of the barn as necessary for restoration and display,” he wrote in a prepared statement. “…The concrete ‘girders’ to which Ms. Taylor refers are “Jersey barriers,” commonly seen along highway construction sites as temporary lane dividers. We are installing them below grade to protect the foundation of our station building and the footings of the barn on the south side from being undermined during a flood event, such as tropical storm Irene.”

LaPierre said he had spoken with Taylor last Friday about the museum’s efforts and that she appeared satisfied with his explanation.

On Wednesday, LaPierre was still fielding questions from neighbors concerned that too many trees would be cut down and reduce the natural screening between the railroad tracks and Lower High Street. LaPierre said screening issues will be looked at in the near future, all resources are now being put into laying the track that will get a steam locomotive inside the barn.

Taylor, however, said she is not reassured.

“We have become painfully aware that there is a huge difference between what is legally allowable and what preserves the rural nature of the street and town we so love,” she said Wednesday. “Although we understand the museum has a mission concerning railroad history, we would like to see that happen while still preserving the quality of life on the street and in our town at the entrance to our beautiful and beloved hamlet.”

Build Absolutly Nothing Anytime Nor Anywhere?

Doug vV

I know I'm often guilty of seeing the world through a 19th-century lens (actually, it's a habit I've tried to cultivate), but hasn't there been a railroad yard in Phoenicia more or less continuously since at least the 1880s? (Yes, I know the railroad was formally abandoned, but the yard was still there.)

Beginning in 1881, Phoenicia was the interchange point between the U&D standard gauge and the Stony Clove & Catskill Mountain narrow gauge, and the Phoenicia yard even featured a Ramsey Transfer apparatus to put standard gauge cars on narrow gauge trucks, similar to the famous timber transfer on the East Broad Top. There is a photo of this operation on p. 253 of Hilton's American Narrow Gauge Railroads, credited to the DeGolyer collection.

-Philip Marshall

Hi Philip,

I was working in Pleasant Valley NY (commuting by Amtrak) once a month from about 1995-1997. I enjoyed visiting Kingston.

One day I almost made the ridding three tourist railroads in one day. II got the timing a little off. The track that looks like the EBT only in SG went roughly NW from Kingston. I rode the U&D, another separate operation (I do not recall the name), and the waterfront trolley or railbus on the Kingston waterfront at the canal.

Do you happen to know the name of the original owning railroad(s) and the two operations I can not recall the official names of?

Thanks.

Doug vV

The tree huggers stopped the construction?

So, what is actually happening in Phoenicia?

Hi Doug,

I'm not sure if I understand your question, but the Catskill Mountan RR was historically the Ulster & Delaware RR (U&D), later part of the New York Central. It ran northwest out of Kingston toward Oneonta. The trolley museum in Kingston also operates on part of the U&D right of way. Another isolated section of the U&D in Delaware County is currently operated as the Delaware & Ulster.

Kingston was also served by the West Shore Railroad (also New York Central), running north-south along the Hudson River, and the NYO&W running southwest toward Summitville and Port Jervis.

The Catskill Mountain RR should not be confused with the historical Catskill Mountain Railway narrow gauge, which ran between Catskill Landing and Palenville and connected with the Catskill & Tannersville (via the Otis Elevating Rwy), Kaaterskill RR, and the Stony Clove & Catskill Mountain RR I mentioned above, all narrow gauge. (The SC&CM and Kaaterskill later became a standard gauge branch of the U&D.)

I hope this clears things up.

-Philip

That busybody doesn't just want construction stopped; she wants the whole thing moved "somewhere else," where her tender sensibilities will not be assaulted by it's existence.

It won't end until every rail, tie, and spike are removed and all memories of the rail lines are gone.

Hi Philip,

As I read your post (which I saved) I recalled the entire thing was the U&D/NYC. I rode the D&U and the CMRR and just missed by a few minutes the last run of the trolley museum.

It was interesting to see the unused sections of the NYC/U&D with rail spanning the edge of a creek - the roadbed was washed out from (I think) a hurricane.

I seem to recall the West Shore Railroad was the PRR's attempt to reach into upstate NY and that the NYC then countered with the South Penn ending up with the West Shore owned by the NYC and the South Penn tunnels becoming part of the Pennsylvania Turnpike.

Fascinating histories. I rode through those tunnels several times on trips from Charleston WV to Harrisburg via Pittsburg and from Harrisburg to the EBT. Must have been expensive construction - the fewer tunnels route was occupied by the PRR and State Railroad very early on (along the Susquehanna watershed).

Thanks.

Doug vV

Here is a map that may help (though it omits the NYO&W, and I suspect purposefully).



-Philip Marshall

Looking at that map of yours I'd be very inclined to inquire if the section between Phoenicia and Kaaterskill/Hunter is indeed intact for possible reuse as a rail line. I'm aware there was a group recently who cleared out the ROW maybe they'd be up for discussion with the CMRR. While re-building an entirely new operation may not be up to the best of interests, given the county's continued persistence to deny tourist trains in Kingston perhaps it could serve as a goodwill substitute for the whole "lets link the entire railroad" scheme. Just a plausible idea once again.

Cameron

Instead of laying new track on some old abandoned right of way, why not just move everything up to the Delaware and Ulster a few mile up the road in Arkville? That group doesn't seem to have any of the problems with neighbors and is hurting for help. And it's not in combative Ulster County.

Now that makes more sense to me. For sure the part about getting out of Ulster County.

Hi,

It has been 20 years since I was last up there. With that caveat, I had heard that the line had been severed near Kingstone for a highway interchange ramp. It was my understanding that ramp had provisions for reconnecting the track when it was needed for service.

Does anyone in the know recall my half remembered thought and/or have an update?

Thanks.

DOug vV