CMRR Results for 2015

http://www.registerstar.com/business/ar ... 55437.html

EH

Steam in Kingston - May 7 and 8, 2016

http://cmrrevents.com/wordpress/steam-train-2016/

We plan to have a busy May - this is just the first event! EH

I don't know who the "Tourist and Railway Museum Association" is but I can tell you that the Association of Tourist Railroads and Railway Museums did NOT get a Request for Proposal of any kind from Ulster County, NY.

G. Mark Ray
President, Association of Tourist Railroads and Railway Museum
http://www.atrrm.org
Be sure to follow our blog!

The railroad tracks across Rt. 28 at Shandaken will be torn out and not replaced when a bridge nearby is rebuilt:

http://www.dailyfreeman.com/general-new ... in-october

Bridge on Route 28 in Shandaken to close by end of April, reopen in October
POSTED: 04/06/16, 4:53 PM EDT | UPDATED: 2 HRS AGO 0 COMMENTS

SHANDAKEN >> When completed this fall, a new bridge on Route 28, near Route 42, will be longer, wider and higher than the existing span and will eliminate the rail crossing currently leased from Ulster County by the Catskill Mountain Railroad.

In the interim, drivers who ordinarily would use the bridge, which crosses the Esopus Creek, will be detoured about 10 minutes out of their way.

At a public information session Monday, state Department of Transportation representatives said the existing bridge will close by the end of April and the 2,600 vehicles per day that use it will be detoured onto Route 42, past the Shandaken post office, to Creekside Drive and back to Route 28 in Big Indian near the firehouse.

An exact date for the bridge closure has not been set. The new span is to open by Oct. 7.

During the planning phase of the Route 28 project, Ulster County officials were concerned the new span would scuttle long-range plans for a trail along the railroad right-of-way — specifically where the tracks cross Route 28 about 100 feet west of the bridge. As a compromise, the state will build a concrete walkway under the new span so people can use the trail without having to cross through traffic.

because they still have a lease doesn't Catskill have something to say about this?
It is apparent the plans did not think about the railroad.

That bridge location is north/west of Phoenicia and east of Big Indian and west of any current operations. Substantial ROW in that area was completely washed out from Irene (about 7000' worth last count by the County) and the two-span girder bridge at Big Indian was washed out including pier(s) and one abutment and removed. So in that area the track is isolated on both sides but the rail is still in place at the middle. Even for a trail the reconstruction is very, very expensive to get to that middle part from either end. That's the western part of the railroad that took the biggest hit.

Irene also appears to have reset the design mark for any repaired drainage structures along the creek - the necessary raise also came up on the reconstruction of the Boiceville bridge at MP 21.3 and just how far above water level a reconstructed bridge had to be, and if that then precluded using it for rail. There was enough distance room there to raise the bridge approach track if necessary, so that while there's still a lot of issues, raising the bridge there doesn't automatically take out the track.

The original D&U ROW was put up through there in the late 1860's, and the piers and abutments were generally done with one layer of faced and set stone over round fill stones in the middle. Repairs and mods had been done in the NYC era, but if that layer of faced stone got stripped off or was compromised, the piers and abutments took severe damage or just disappeared. There's debate over whether the water level during Irene turned the deck girders into dams and pulled apart the piers, or if the piers undermined and fell apart in the storm, either way, the waterline was well above the bottom web of the girders. So the whole bridge elevation thing along this creek is impacted by that storm event as well as future planning. On this particular one the crossing is only about 80' off the end of the existing bridge on the west side, so raising the Rt. 28 highway bridge really messes up the historic rail crossing location - which is already removed there and further up Rt. 28 at Big Indian. West of Big Indian you're climbing out of the valley again and most of the ROW is relatively intact.

On another side of the railroad vs. trail situation, this little exchange turned up on my Facebook page, via "Riding the Rails to the Catskills." This should be an open page, and you should be able to look at it without signing in, but I will also get photo links and a transcription up if you have troubles.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/Railsto ... 2631386788

Opening photograph:

https://scontent-iad3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hp ... e=57B87223

Caption by Michael Helbing of the trail group, Metrotrails:

Proof that Rail WITH Trail works! At Kingston Point on former Ulster and Delaware Railroad corridor.

City of Kingston's claim:

"This is NOT Rail with trail...it is a trolley track with a footpath beside it". We sent them back a photo of a dog in a blue shirt and told them it was not, but in fact a puppy in a navy blouse. They deleted the comments and blocked us from commenting on any of their affiliated government pages.

Following commentary:

LeRoy Hogan: I have been blocked from Ulster County Tourism FaceBook Page.

Michael Helbing: It's a grey area that some municipalities nationwide consider illegal and against constitutional rights. These are government appointed or created entities with "Open public forums", and they are allowed to censor such to sway public perception. Some of them are truly horrible people.

LeRoy Hogan: I'm guilty of supporting CMRR

Michael Helbing: So am I and many others. As President of a Trail Advocacy group, I was at first excited to hear about the trail...then I found out about what they were doing with the corridor. I offered a simple suggestion without taking sides, on how rail WITH trail could work, with a photo of a similar application. They deleted my comment within five minutes and thanked me for my interest. I asked why it was removed, and they simply wouldn't respond.

They said that plan "would not work here", and that there are no places rail with trail work with this narrow a corridor. I sent several more examples proving them wrong, and let them know that I 1.) work for state park service and serve on state trails committee and 2.) am Chairman of the Board of Recreation for my county, so I know, and these claims are absolutely false. I was then blocked.

Michael Helbing: I then found out about dirty money, the points system for trail grants, and how their lies are simply to siphon more money into the "project", of which money can be allocated into several places some might not consider to be trail related.

David Lubic A trolley track? What a bunch of hooey! For the record, it is a former standard gauge steam railroad line, indeed a part of the same former Ulster & Delaware Railroad that makes up this line, the Catskill Mountain, and the Delaware & Ulster in the next county.

Now, some trolley lines were built differently. Some were of different track gauges (as were some steam roads), including some that were broad gauge (and still are, in Pittsburgh, Pa, and New Orleans, La.). Most common difference between typical trolley or interurban practice vs. steam railroads was somewhat lighter construction, usually cheaper civil engineering (with sharper curves and steeper grades than would be typical of steam roads), typically street running into towns, and very often using special girder rail in street running with a flangeway as part of the rail. None of this applies to this line, which as noted, was a steam railroad before!

Michael Helbing: Preaching to the choir there! But that is indeed what Kingston said..."it's not a rail with trail, it's a trolley track with a footpath next to it". I couldn't believe what I was reading

Michael Helbing Read it and laugh:

Facebook link to a photograph near the same location on the same line:

https://www.facebook.com/KingstonHappen ... =3&theater

The photo:

https://scontent-iad3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hp ... &oe=577B1D

Commentary at Kingston Happenings, the source for the photo above, and which apparently has a moderator who is very much in favor of the trail:

Kingston Happenings: This is not a forum for debate and I'm not allowing one of my pictures to be misrepresented.

Michael Helbing: That is a ridicules comment. Look at the nearest state forest, Bluestone Wild Forest. All of those are considered "Bike trails" and they are all two feet wide.

A foot path next to any tracks is a rail WITH trail. This exact thing has been done...and narrower...elsewhere.

Ryan Lennox: I see a walking trail next to a railroad. So in all fairness this IS a Rail With Trail. What else would you call the path next to the track with people walking it? Also why take such offense? I loved the photo. wink emoticon

Andrew Dawson: So that is still Rail with Trail.

Michael Helbing: This is not a dog wearing a blue shirt. It's a puppy wearing a marine blouse.

http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=htt ... HgodQdMLGw

Karen Heberling: I love the colors of the trees. I had great pleasure taking pictures of all the different types of colors when was over there.

Karen Heberling: I love the colors of the trees. Had great pleasure taking photos of the different colors when was over there.

Jen Wynne: I miss this beautiful area!

Michael Kolbe: My favorite pic !

Al Bruno It is a beautiful picture regardless what it represents.


And now we go back to the original commentary at Riding the Rails to the Catskills:

David Lubic: Thanks--and one other thing, if it is a trolley line, where is the wire for the electric cars that would run on it?

Michael Helbing: Well, you can see what they said above. I can't comment, because they blocked me, and they blocked the Metrotrails page. Standard practice for anything affiliated with Kingston or Ulster County.

Michael Helbing: Now, they say there is not enough room for a "bike path", and yet Bluestone Wild Forest is all multi use bike and hike paths, and all are narrower than this...in the same county no less.

David Lubic: Michael, with your permission, I would like to use your photographs and commentary in a couple of other venues to help embarrass the trail crowd here, which is working very hard at deserving such ridicule and ire.

Michael Helbing: Go for it.

David Lubic: Thanks.


Michael Helbing You might like this one I posted today as well:
https://www.facebook.com/metrotrails/po ... 3921109812

Photos from the past and today at Hasbrouck Avenue Tunnel in Kingston:

https://scontent-iad3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hp ... e=57845A06

https://scontent-iad3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hp ... e=57B64634


Metrotrails Then and Now Series: Hasbrouck Avenue Tunnel is the only tunnel on the historic Ulster and Delaware Corridor, the only rail line to truly cross the Catskill Mountains of New York.

The Catskill Mountain Railroad Co. is struggling to preserve the remaining trackage for tourism trains and rail WITH trail uses, while Ulster County wants trail only alignment on the historic corridor.

The rails SHOULD be saved with the dual use plan, but the local governments will not acknowledge this will work, despite proof of it being done in narrower corridors elsewhere. We, along with all other proponents of this plan have been blocked for posting on all government and committee facebook pages affiliated with local tourism or their proposed trail, despite respectful and reasonable commentary.

This censorship of an "Open Public Forum" in most places is considered against Constitutional Rights, but when this was brought up, Ulster County stated "A rule, unless consistently applied, is not a rule".

The conduct of Ulster County and the City of Kingston on social media with regard to this case is a disgrace to real trail advocates and lovers of history everywhere.

End of commentary.

This is particularly noticeable in that the original posting is by a very dedicated trail supporter, and the claim that this is a trolley line when it in reality is a former steam road is, well, just ridiculous.

^It's been going on for years. Anyone pro-railroad is blocked, suspended, erased.

It's funny that a very small vocal group can have such power.

You'd think the 27,230 passengers the CMRR carried in Kingston in 2015 would have more power.

Kingston already has one rail trail that no on uses. The O&W trail...

yeh, theres an abandoned rail line near here and its been turned into a trail, with all the fixin's, I cross it a lot, I see nobody on it.

What I might do is contact my local rep, give him some details and tell him to pass some words along to pass along and along and maybe something gets through. This is running into North Shore abandonement territory (thats a long story with auto GM connections). CMR is an active group and proving its possible.

Service ends in Kingston Memorial Day weekend. The Kingston businesses will miss the people who rode the CMRR trains.

http://catskillmtrailroad.com/schedules.php

Farewell to Kingston - Departs Westbook Lane

May 28-29-30, 2016
Kingston Round Trip

Departs Kingston at...

10:30am
12:30pm
2:30pm
4:30pm

LAST DAY OF SERVICE: May 30, 2016

So what happens to all the equipment in Kingston?

Update on lawsuit:

http://www.dailyfreeman.com/general-new ... ty-is-over

there may be hope yet

I believe that they have 60 days from May 31 to move said equipment in Kingston. However the City of Phoenicia does not want the equipment stored there?

Lots of questions and problems to be worked out. Still something stinks in this deal. I suspect some sort of announcement after May 31 from the County promoting some kind of new real estate deal will be happening along the railroad line once the dirty old trains are gone!!!!!