My impression at the time was that the information collected during the interviews with site stakeholders would all be compiled into a report to the hiring committee. The report would be used as a basis for developing search criteria and for creating goals or priorities for the new superintendent. I do no know if these are goals/priorities/suggestions or deliverables with concrete benchmarks and deadlines by which the superintendent is evaluated on a regular basis.

It wouldn't be a bad idea to invest in a wye or a turntable. If my memory serves me, there used to be a wye in Tobyhanna? The Kingsley station is gone, maybe they could go to Alford for something new.

There still is, however, one of the legs of the wye is almost always in use, with cars for the propane plant right there at the wye as well.

Obviously this is a transparent attempt to reopen a locked thread, with a familiar litany of complaints and nebulous and unworkable proposals by the usual suspects, who remain hostile, not helpful. If the moderator continues to indulge this cyber-Jihad and freeze out substantive responses, perhaps the only recourse will be to use other media to respond.

However, let's examine a few statements.

"I continue to believe that the only way to truly transform the place into a national mecca for operating steam would be for the NPS to outsource its operation to a DO ( with an annual operating subsidy of about 50% of the $ 6 million it now costs Uncle Sam to run the place) so that it can be run efficiently as a private sector enterprise ( close in the winter, staff in numbers appropriate to the level of guests, an incentive agreement with the DL RR that encourages them to want as many steam excursions as possible, etc.,etc.) and other common sense measures that any private sector DO would employ."

However, the reality is that the chances of it ever being outsourced is extremely slim and thus it behooves us to face reality and do the best we can with what we have.

Not extremely slim, completely outside the realm of informed imagination and with no legal basis. There is no such thing as a DO for NPS locations, in the law or regulations that govern their operations. If there were vendors capable of meeting an RFP issued to solicit the services of such a hypothetical organization, they'd be lobbying Congress to change the law. If such thing existed, they'd be focused on military sites like the 20+ Civil War sites, or the Natural History Sites like Yellowstone.

"Maybe, just maybe with a new Superintendent and a new Friends group headed up by an energetic, knowledgeable, and devoted person it can bring some new life into the place and perhaps institute a " guest locomotive" program that will attract some visiting steam so that Steamtown can actually live up to its name???"

Full biographies of the Directors and Officers will be forthcoming, however the President is Mr. Norman Barrett, retired CP Road Foreman, with an extensive history of involvement in preservation and historical organizations. Think that Norm might qualify as energetic, knowledgeable, and devoted person?


"It wouldn't be a bad idea to invest in a wye or a turntable. If my memory serves me, there used to be a wye in Tobyhanna?"

Are you aware of a parcel of land in Tobyhanna for sale, "cheap", ditto a turntable?


"I remember see some "investigative reporting" on TV about the NPS perhaps ten years ago that stated that Pennsylvania was considered by NPS lifers as the "penalty box" of the NPS, and if you found yourself assigned to an NPS site in PA, it was a sign that someone higher up was pissed at you, and your career was on a downward spiral."

Don't believe everything you see and hear on TV, otherwise you might think "Unstoppable" is a railroad movie or the Amish Mafia is a documentary about Anabaptists living in Pennsylvania and Ohio.

Here's the interesting thing. A good portion of the staff are Scranton residents who have never been assigned anywhere else and expect that they will work only in Scranton.

People don't get "assigned" in government service, they apply for them, here:

https://www.usajobs.gov/Search?keyword= ... service%22


"I think a big part of the differences is that the National Park Service owns the rails for the CVSR, while the NPS/Steamtown does not own the rails, but the PNRRA does. I believe that's one of the bigger differences between the two operations."

True.

"What direction is the superintendent getting from the NPS? Are they giving her specific directives or just blanket demands? Or none at all?"

Is that a serious question, or do you really not know that NPS Superintendents are federal employees that have bosses that give annual performance appraisals, and who are eager to avoid calls from the head of the NPS or the Secretary of the Interior?


Oh yeah, why isn't this in "railfanning"?

It's a serious question, I have no idea how involved Conway's superiors are. I was hoping that an answer might shed some light on exactly who is promoting having four operable steam locomotives at one time. If it's coming from a pay grade above the local super, that could mean that the NPS is willing to step in monetarily or otherwise to see it happen, and that is very relevant.

I brought up the wye because we, or at least I, was trying to pinpoint changes to refine/improve the excursion experience. I didn't conduct a feasibility study prior to posting. A potential wye or turntable would not have to be located in the heart of Tobyhanna to be useful.

I don't know how you are taking my posts since there is no way to judge inflection over a data cable, but I am pro-Steamtown. You obviously have a personal involvement with the park, so how about answering my question? What should their goals be in 5, 10, and 15 years? Where is the money wasted and what can we do to keep more in the park's coffers? I did get the budgetary link that you posted, I am still making my way through it. You can discuss it further with me via PM if you'd rather but I am questioning and not attacking anyone. We keep having these same discussions as a community because very little information ever comes from the park.

The structure of the NPS and its operating culture isn't up for change. it is what it is and asking that it be something else is not worth mentioning. Thinking about technical operating details like turntables and this locomotive or that locomotive in the absence of criteria for choosing what is appropriate BASED ON WHAT WILL BRING IN VISITORS AND SUPPORT THE PARKS MISSION is premature. Is there a published mission statement out there to use as a starting point for consideration?

From what I recall the mission statement, or at least the original, did not exactly match up with the current park SOP. For me, that does not present itself as a problem. [EDIT] I had to look up what I recalled reading, the mission statement is centered only around steam preservation, which at this point should probably be amended to include rail preservation or at least steam up to and including the transitional period to encompass the hard working diesels.

Apparently wyes are hot button issues but I suggested them for two reasons; one, appearance matters, and coming down the entire grade backwards limits fan activity such as photo run-bys, and two, one of the locos was chewing up bearings at a higher then normal rate from running backwards for extended periods. I believe it stemmed from an oiling issue and I want to say it was 3254 but at this point I honestly don't remember.

My personal opinion is to not bring ANY new locomotives online after 3713 for a long, lone time. Between her and BLW 26 you will have, basically, two brand new engines which should sail through subsequent tear downs much faster and more economically than any other engine in the collection. I would love to see #47, 6039, and a dozen others stretch their legs but that does not make sense from a financial or operational stand point.

I took 6-18003's question to be one regarding the level of autonomy a superintendent has in setting priorities at the site. Wish I had more to tell you 6-18003. These sorts of inquiries are certainly nothing to Blow a Gasket about.

Dave - your statement about operating culture is true if one assumes that the NPS has perfect franchise control over all of its sites such that the operating culture is consistent throughout the system. Reading the "Partnerships" section of the NPS website, looking at websites of "Friends of" groups throughout the NPS system, and comparing it all to the situation in Scranton tells me that may not necessarily be the case.

As for the structure of NPS, all anyone needs to know is in the Director's Orders. They are what they are. One can either choose to use them as reasons for not being able to do something or as a challenge to find creative ways of working within the system to reach a goal. As 6-18003 said of the late Kip Hagen, "former superintendent Kip Hagen, who, God bless his soul, would do what he could within the NPS framework to make things happen."

"I brought up the wye because we, or at least I, was trying to pinpoint changes to refine/improve the excursion experience. I didn't conduct a feasibility study prior to posting. A potential wye or turntable would not have to be located in the heart of Tobyhanna to be useful."


Ok, fine. Pick a spot you think would be beneficial.

"These sorts of inquiries are certainly nothing to Blow a Gasket about."

"Or none at all?" was the question prompted my question.

The response was hardly blowing a gasket. Employees are subject to routine oversight from their managers, in whatever form and proportion they see necessary. If somebody talks football, they should understand there's blocking and tackling.

A-a-hem................

Xanterra.

From Wikipedia:


My prediction is that you will follow up with a litany of technicalities about why Xanterra can/has to do what it does and why that is in no way whatsoever applicable to the Steamtown scenario.

In addition, my brother-in-law is an active member of the Grand Canyon Association, "the National Park Service's official non-profit partner raising private funds to benefit the Grand Canyon National Park. The profits raised are used in operating retail bookstores, visitor centers within the park, and providing educational opportunities about the natural and cultural history of the region."

I'm not interested in technicalities. The fact remains that, for better or worse, there are already private enterprises, for-profit and non-profit, doing under contract a great deal of the stuff that is, at least in debatable theory, the NPS's job/duty. It is, therefore, not an illogical presumption that some form of contractor could do things at Steamtown that the NPS "can't" do, or can only do with difficulty.

To go off of the earlier post regarding the Tobyhanna wye, I've attached three screenshots from Google Maps. As you can see, the propane plant is right there trackside, and they use the wye leg for car storage - there's not really room to add another wye leg there, imho.

I thought my question was pretty clear, how could anyone not employed at the park know the level to which Conway's superiors hold her hand? Some managers are into the details, and many are not. They may have her count the squares on an official roll of NPS toilet paper every Tuesday or just ask how many phone calls the ticket booth received in February. My point, that I am making again, is that it does make a difference if there is a lot of input coming DOWN the chain.



I honestly don't know. My first inclination would be to see if the existing wye can be revamped to accommodate both entities.



At a glance, there seems to be a similar arrangement at Conway's former post. And for all we know, she may want to see something along those lines in Scranton as well. The biggest drawback with contractor or private operation is that the price controls will be gone. I won't pay $60+ per person for a ride to Moscow. SNHS actually provides one heck of a bang for your buck when it comes to steam.

"My prediction is that you will follow up with a litany of technicalities about why Xanterra can/has to do what it does and why that is in no way whatsoever applicable to the Steamtown scenario."


This would be the same Xanterra that caused a kerfuffle here a few years back when they acquired the contract and curtailed the majority of steam operations and what limited operations they now conduct are fueled with french fry grease, correct?

Yes, they are: This is from their website:

https://www.thetrain.com/special-events/steam/

"For years the Railway operated steam engines from Memorial Day to Labor Day, but in 2008 we discontinued regular runs because of environmental considerations. Operating an all-diesel fleet of locomotives year-round saves a considerable amount of fuel and reduces greenhouse gas emissions and air pollutants associated with steam locomotives."

Can't wait for Tier4town! All aboard.

In the words of Jeff Dunham's Achmed character, seriously? seriously?

The fact that you find certain facts inconvenient and choose to call them "technicalities" doesn't at all make them reasonable or surmountable, any more than your brother-in-law's affiliation makes you informed or authoritative. As I recall, GcRy owns the locomotives, which are not an accessioned part of a collection, but doesn't own the railroad. Again, not what's up at Steamtown.

I think the suggestion is less about Xanterra taking over in Scranton and more about potential partners such as the new non-profit group being able to exercise those same freedoms and opportunities. In other words, the precedent has already been set.