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 Post subject: Re: Locomotive Brake Shoe Force on Wheel
PostPosted: Mon Nov 23, 2015 11:18 pm 

Joined: Thu Sep 22, 2011 4:29 pm
Posts: 1899
Location: Youngstown, OH
The brake shoe heads will accept the composition shoes that I have. Everything is already designed and ready to build and install. I just need the brake valve. For some reason people who own park engines get real testy if you show up with wrenches and start taking parts off of them. If that wasn't the case I would have the snifter valves that I need and a good set of injectors! :)

I would probably brake the loco using the johnson bar as originally done. The steam brake would be a backup system as there will be the public in vicinity and insurers like to see provisions for brakes.

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 Post subject: Re: Locomotive Brake Shoe Force on Wheel
PostPosted: Mon Nov 23, 2015 11:28 pm 

Joined: Sun Sep 05, 2004 9:48 am
Posts: 1676
Location: Byers, Colorado
Penberthy injectors work pretty good on those little Porters.

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 Post subject: Re: Locomotive Brake Shoe Force on Wheel
PostPosted: Mon Nov 23, 2015 11:43 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 7:19 am
Posts: 6464
Location: southeastern USA
A steam rated 3 way valve will do nicely if you can't find something original.

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 Post subject: Re: Locomotive Brake Shoe Force on Wheel
PostPosted: Tue Nov 24, 2015 8:45 am 

Joined: Wed Mar 31, 2010 12:02 am
Posts: 293
Perhaps this is a silly idea, but, if I understand correctly, you are building a replica tender for this engine, so perhaps the brakes could be mounted on the tender? I imagine tender/cart wheels are easier to come by than steam locomotive drivers, which may make them a better candidate since the brakes could wear the wheel over time. Granted, the tender is nowhere near as a heavy as the locomotive, but I believe you said that the equipment would be operated at walking speed, so maybe the tender brake would still function satisfactorily. This would also minimize safety modifications to the original equipment, while still having them present on replica equipment that will always run with the original equipment.

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 Post subject: Re: Locomotive Brake Shoe Force on Wheel
PostPosted: Tue Nov 24, 2015 10:14 am 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 7:19 am
Posts: 6464
Location: southeastern USA
Let's bear in mind that this will be running at walking speed on a few hundred feet of rail a few times a year. Considerations like equalizing wear on the tires is inconsequential - it might need to be dealt with every few decades or so, and the flange wear at the railhead will happen sooner on the tight curves.

I like the idea of putting the brake on the tender - that eliminates the finding of room for the brake cylinder on the locomotive since the current rear platform design prevents having it under the cab floor between the side frames.

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 Post subject: Re: Locomotive Brake Shoe Force on Wheel
PostPosted: Tue Nov 24, 2015 10:22 am 

Joined: Sun Sep 05, 2004 9:48 am
Posts: 1676
Location: Byers, Colorado
I agree, great idea --- It keeps the locomotive original, but satisfies the underwriters.

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 Post subject: Re: Locomotive Brake Shoe Force on Wheel
PostPosted: Tue Nov 24, 2015 11:09 am 

Joined: Wed Oct 22, 2008 8:18 pm
Posts: 2226
as you go here you should explore new driver tires, eventually that can happen changing them. The tender brake idea is a good one. In the meantime when operating you can do the reversing trick for brakes for the jollies, or practicality, or demonstration how they did it. I would think an engineer would get good expertise doing that.


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 Post subject: Re: Locomotive Brake Shoe Force on Wheel
PostPosted: Tue Nov 24, 2015 11:25 am 

Joined: Wed Oct 22, 2008 8:18 pm
Posts: 2226
http://www.sk-automation.com/ballvalves ... valve.html

you would need 2 valves, one to actuate, the other to release the steam to the brakes


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 Post subject: Re: Locomotive Brake Shoe Force on Wheel
PostPosted: Tue Nov 24, 2015 1:27 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 7:19 am
Posts: 6464
Location: southeastern USA
No you don't. One 3 way valve is all that's required for control, and the spring loaded automatic condensation drain valves at the low points.

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 Post subject: Re: Locomotive Brake Shoe Force on Wheel
PostPosted: Tue Nov 24, 2015 10:36 pm 

Joined: Wed Oct 22, 2008 8:18 pm
Posts: 2226
I'm aware of the 3 position valves...the above valves were only 2 position. I just did a quick find for -something- current manufacture thats steam rated that could function. I'll keep the search ongoing. 8-D


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 Post subject: Re: Locomotive Brake Shoe Force on Wheel
PostPosted: Wed Nov 25, 2015 10:34 am 

Joined: Thu Sep 22, 2011 4:29 pm
Posts: 1899
Location: Youngstown, OH
The locomotive will weigh about 45 tons in working order, the tender will weigh about 3 tons when loaded, and that is with the 2" thick steel plate floor that I added for weight.

The valve I am looking for is similar to this one on the tank engine at Altoona. I am sure that one must exist somewhere that would be available. I'll keep looking.


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 Post subject: Re: Locomotive Brake Shoe Force on Wheel
PostPosted: Wed Nov 25, 2015 10:42 am 

Joined: Thu Sep 22, 2011 4:29 pm
Posts: 1899
Location: Youngstown, OH
I give up on vertically oriented photos! Why in 2015 a vertically oriented photo cannot stay that way is beyond me!

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 Post subject: Re: Locomotive Brake Shoe Force on Wheel
PostPosted: Wed Nov 25, 2015 10:48 am 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 7:19 am
Posts: 6464
Location: southeastern USA
Look overseas. Industrial power didn't commonly use any other braking system in most other parts of the world.

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