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 Post subject: Re: Thomas and the Gender Barrier Revisted
PostPosted: Mon Nov 23, 2015 7:57 pm 

Joined: Wed Feb 02, 2011 9:40 pm
Posts: 841
Dave wrote:
Sorry if I didn't make it clear - being an old white guy, I see mostly other old white guys working on this stuff. I'm thrilled to see people who aren't either old, white or guys getting involved since broadening the base is going to be necessary in the future if we are to continue to evolve in any way other than towards oblivion. The new smaller crops of other old white guys will show up anyhow, but in ever decreasing numbers while we current more numerous old white guys die off. And, the comment was as sexist and ageist as it was racist, which given my point truly isn't any of them at all. Any particular reason *you* zeroed in exclusively on race? For the record, I'm against emotional foamers trying to manage businesses, those who are proud of their own ignorance, those who are too dumb to be ignorant, irrational decision makers and those who have never dealt with difficult things second guessing those who are in a position where they have to. If you are none of these I welcome you.



Amen!!!


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 Post subject: Re: Thomas and the Gender Barrier Revisted
PostPosted: Tue Nov 24, 2015 3:06 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 11:54 pm
Posts: 2605
"I'm thrilled to see people who aren't either old, white or guys getting involved"

My wife is a nurse. Nursing has always been a 90+ percent female calling. Nobody seems to notice that there is a shortage of male nurses, with a high concentration of the males clustered in a few specialties. Today it has become one of those jobs that can actually be called a "career", with opportunities for bother horizontal and vertical advancement, above average pay and benefits. Nurse managers are 6 figure jobs. Clearly there is some sort of old girls network keeping men from these jobs, perhaps it's the "pink ceiling" or the subtle disparate impact discrimination of a high-estrogen environment. Obviously, the entire nursing profession needs to take serious account of its failings in attracting men, perhaps holding outreach programs and making young men who could do the job as well as women aware of these opportunities. Its time that there's Congressional hearings on this injustice.

Does that sound stupid? It should. It is-but that kind of stuff is said everyday by people who imagine themselves enlightened. You almost want to have the line from Jurassic World "Do you hear yourself when you talk" ready to playback. Even if I had the technical skills my wife does, I don't have the patience for the ridiculous demands made upon her on a daily basis. I couldn't be restrained in not telling the 400lb morbidly obese, diabetic that knocked back a case over the weekend to take their death wish elsewhere.

If somebody shows up with an interest, great. What matters is what matters in any safety sensitive craft. Smarts, focus, people skills. Melanin and plumbing don't. EITHER WAY. It starts with interest, and you either have it or you don't.

If I want to be devalued, excluded and marginalized, there's plenty of opportunities from politicians, academics, activists, and the idiots who run the AICPA. If you want to engage in public self-flagellation and denigration, have at it, but don't expect everybody to join in. I'm not buying the T-shirts that were sold briefly a few years ago that said "boys are stupid, throw stones at them".

Xemomania is as much an impairment as xenophobia.


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 Post subject: Re: Thomas and the Gender Barrier Revisted
PostPosted: Tue Nov 24, 2015 6:43 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 7:19 am
Posts: 6464
Location: southeastern USA
My suggestion that we focus our resources for recruitment into nontraditional populations since the traditional ones don't need much encouragement seems to have taken on a life of its own. Maybe that's a good thing, even if the message is lost, provided it engenders thought and conversation.

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“God, the beautiful racket of it all: the sighing and hissing, the rattle and clack of the cars over the rails. These were the sounds that made America the greatest country on earth." Jonathan Evison


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 Post subject: Re: Thomas and the Gender Barrier Revisted
PostPosted: Wed Nov 25, 2015 4:57 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 11:54 pm
Posts: 2605
"I'm thrilled to see people who aren't either old, white or guys getting involved"

Got the message, loud and clear, thanks.


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 Post subject: Re: Thomas and the Gender Barrier Revisted
PostPosted: Wed Nov 25, 2015 6:54 pm 
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Joined: Fri Oct 01, 2004 2:46 pm
Posts: 2696
Location: Pac NW, via North Florida
Reminds me of a (non-RR) museum I went to this year and I overheard someone talking with a young female about possibly volunteering. The staffer, not realizing how the comment sounded out of context, said, "That'd be great, we're actively trying to recruit away from the normal older white guy mold," and I'm sure she meant it in the context of a young woman being welcomed.
An older white (well, sort of red in the face by then) guy came over and said while stuffing his wallet back into his back pocket, "I guess my money also isn't any good for you, then, if I'm not what you're looking for on volunteers!" The staffer, realizing what that had come across as, started stammering with a response, but the guy was out the door before the words came.

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Lee Bishop


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 Post subject: Re: Thomas and the Gender Barrier Revisted
PostPosted: Wed Nov 25, 2015 6:58 pm 

Joined: Thu May 21, 2015 9:33 am
Posts: 209
Location: Liberty Hill, SC
My wife and I were heavily involved in the local railroad museum. We would go up there on Fridays after work, and do work preparing for the next day, or other projects. We would spend the night in the camp car. She spent lots of her own time and money fixing it up and she even started painting it. Well several old heads didn't like the color, said the car was never that road, etc etc. She got pretty disheartened at that but kept going. They ate crow when after scraping we found that road name under all the paint! She got conductor qualified, and did lots of back breaking work in the track gang. When she was up for engineer, same thing. The old guys about blew a gasket over it. Said mean stuff behind her back. Worse part was 'management' did nothing about it. So she left. Then I left. I sort of go back and help occasionally, but now it is a battle to go- my wife doesn't think I should bother. I do see in her face that she misses it when we talk about the good times there. But she will never darken their doorstep again. And it is a shame, she picked it up quick and would have made a great engineer. And she put in more than her fair share of the elbow grease to keep the place running.

Through all this she has become a closet railfan. She chased me (it was 611 really) back to Roanoke on the maiden trip. She will stop for a train down the line. She asks me questions. Points out engines she saw. Asks about going to different rail themed museums.

What I have discovered over the years is a good number of volunteer outfits don't have a recruiting problem, they have a retention problem. There will be highly opinionated people in every organization. The thing is if something is going on others need to head it off and support the new person, and remind the old that someone has to take over or it will all turn to rust. They can't be buried in the unfinished project.

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Adam McDowell
Owner ATOM Rail LLC


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 Post subject: Re: Thomas and the Gender Barrier Revisted
PostPosted: Sat Nov 28, 2015 1:16 am 

Joined: Wed Aug 25, 2004 11:16 am
Posts: 767
Dear Mr McDowell

Here is a story your wife may enjoy. While not historic preservation it is an event that stuck with me. During my time at the NN I was working on getting some of the older volunteers back. One I had heard a lot of positive things on was Lynn. Lynn in a special person and has accomplished many things that most people can only dream of. If you see the video about running passenger locomotives with NN 40, SP 2472 and the UP 4-8-4 with one of its numbers on it you hear TJ Lani refer to her. Jack Anderson and I had recently worked on getting better coal for the locomotive and after talking to Steve Butler we got a hold of the mine that both the C&TS & D&S use. The coal overall performed much better but it had different characteristics that our fireman were having to adjust to it. Lynn had heard this and when I talked to her about coming back to volunteer we discussed what she wanted to do. Due to the change in coal she wanted to fire a couple of trips.

So after making arrangements I marked her up as firing and did not think much of it. The day came and she seemed to enjoy it. Yet the events that were to happen next made this day stick in my mind. Alan the engineer for that day went looking for me. To my surprise Alan very tactfully but yet under no room for misunderstanding expressed his out rage at the schedule that I had written. Lynn had volunteers at the museum longer than he had. He had a lot of respect for her. So my lecture was when the two of them were to be in the cab he wanted her to run and him to fire. When the conversation started I was initially worried about where he was going but when I realized he was trying to ensure that she got the respect she deserved I was impressed. Fortunately due to my actions previously with her I could tell Alan that I appreciated his concern and that the reason that she fired was not my decision but hers. I told him how I asked her what she wanted and that lead to the schedule being written around her. I think the Alan then realized what I had done and appreciated it

Ely, Nevada and the Nevada Northern are very remote and you have to be determined to get there. A side benefit to this disadvantage if the out of town volunteers have a passion and a drive. They care deeply for the property. They also give more just to get to the project than most people. The result was good volunteers to work with. I hope your wife can find a way to overcome those short sited people.

Robby Peartree


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