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 Post subject: Re: Reading 2100 open house
PostPosted: Wed Aug 19, 2015 6:32 am 

Joined: Fri Apr 26, 2013 5:56 pm
Posts: 445
Location: Ontario, Canada.
TrainWatcher wrote:
So here's a question. Since the team has found no damage to the firebox after the poorly attempted oil conversion, who originally started the "rumor" around that the 2100 had this damage or was it speculation?


Some of us first heard that rumour on this site. There are plenty of "experts" on here who know these things. It was going to cost in the millions to repair all the overheat damage caused by an oil burner that could barely make enough steam to blow the whistle.
Meanwhile, best wishes to the Reading 2100 group. It sounds like a great effort.


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 Post subject: Re: Reading 2100 open house
PostPosted: Wed Aug 19, 2015 8:08 am 

Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2012 5:24 pm
Posts: 79
The rumor was likely started from one of two places, first being speculation. Since it was an improper oil conversion than it *must* have caused damage experts would say (without ever seeing it or putting a UT on it).

The second theory is the rumor was started by someone that wanted the operation shut down. Tom Payne had lots of enemies, so this is completely plausible.

I think it was a combination of the two and people just excepting it for the truth with no proof. We see this in the media and online everyday. We are a know it all society that loves drama.

It sounds like from what I gather talking to volunteers at the roundhouse, most of the work will go into converting the bearings to oil bath and fixing the left main rod.

It would not be a very good or interesting story if the firebox was okay and the engine really didn't need that much work now would it?


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 Post subject: Re: Reading 2100 open house
PostPosted: Wed Aug 19, 2015 8:27 am 

Joined: Thu Aug 26, 2004 2:50 pm
Posts: 2815
Location: Northern Illinois
I donno... it sounds like the best possible story to me. How many years does the engine have left before it's next internal is due?

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 Post subject: Re: Reading 2100 open house
PostPosted: Wed Aug 19, 2015 11:40 am 

Joined: Fri Dec 03, 2004 9:42 pm
Posts: 3011
One place I saw the story was on Facebook, by somebody who posted a picture of the firebox and, based on a single photo, declared it had serious damage and warping. Never mind the fact it was actually distortion from the lens that was used.

I will grant you the operation had its share of problems, but the amount of mud slinging and accusations were incredible. Nice to see the real facts finally come out.


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 Post subject: Re: Reading 2100 open house
PostPosted: Wed Aug 19, 2015 12:04 pm 
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Joined: Fri Oct 01, 2004 2:46 pm
Posts: 2696
Location: Pac NW, via North Florida
Let's think of this logically; someone bought the locomotive and paid to have it shipped a very long way. None of that could have been cheap. Wouldn't it stand to reason that they'd have taken a decent look at it first?
TrainWatcher wrote:
So here's a question. Since the team has found no damage to the firebox after the poorly attempted oil conversion, who originally started the "rumor" around that the 2100 had this damage or was it speculation?
I know who posted it here first (I did a search here and it didn't take long to find it), but I won't name names. He was/is big on poo-pooing pretty much everyone.
Typical preservationist, "I'm better than you are" back-biting childishness. And folks let themselves be spoon fed it because they know way to know otherwise. I know someone who (probably while trespassing) look a good peak at the inside of 2100's firebox when she was in storage and he confirmed that the firebox didn't seem to be nearly as bad as the, "I always want to believe the worst" ramblings online.

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 Post subject: Re: Reading 2100 open house
PostPosted: Wed Aug 19, 2015 12:09 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 11:26 am
Posts: 4773
Location: Maine
I have to take credit as being one of those who repeated the story of the siphons being distorted. Mea culpa, I would never want to do or say anything to discredit any restoration. I am only thrilled to know 2100 is in a better place.

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 Post subject: Re: Reading 2100 open house
PostPosted: Wed Aug 19, 2015 12:43 pm 

Joined: Wed Dec 24, 2014 3:15 pm
Posts: 635
On a podcast called "The Roundhouse," the chief operator said back in April "for the first minor inspection, they were amazed about how good the engine's condition in the boiler was." They were surprised how great the condition of the flues were. The photos in the engine are misleading, and the only real issue with the 2100 there was that it was covered in sand. It's on YouTube if you guys want to find the entire 52 minute podcast. Very interesting conversation.


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 Post subject: Re: Reading 2100 open house
PostPosted: Wed Aug 19, 2015 3:26 pm 

Joined: Fri Dec 03, 2004 9:42 pm
Posts: 3011
p51 wrote:
I know someone who (probably while trespassing) look a good peak at the inside of 2100's firebox when she was in storage and he confirmed that the firebox didn't seem to be nearly as bad as the, "I always want to believe the worst" ramblings online.


I took a very good look inside it as well. I was not trespassing, and it was in my best interest to do so, since if it suffered a failure I was going to be among the first to know about it, and to deal with whatever the results were.

It was claimed the oil burner was based on a CP (or maybe CN?) system from the steam era, and it worked better than most folks think. It steamed better the harder she worked. I think that with a bit of tuning it could have been successful. Yes, the installation was a rather ugly kludge. It was also done in a way that was easily reversible to return her to coal.

Mistakes were made I'm certain, but not to the extremes claimed. However, since there's no use arguing with somebody who's already made up their mind, I didn't bother then, and I also won't now.


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 Post subject: Re: Reading 2100 open house
PostPosted: Wed Aug 19, 2015 4:02 pm 

Joined: Fri Dec 03, 2004 9:42 pm
Posts: 3011
ted101 wrote:
The second theory is the rumor was started by someone that wanted the operation shut down. Tom Payne had lots of enemies, so this is completely plausible.


They may or may not have started it, but they definitely tried hard to keep it going. They also pulled some other stunts. Amazing how petty some folks can be.


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 Post subject: Re: Reading 2100 open house
PostPosted: Wed Aug 19, 2015 4:34 pm 

Joined: Wed Feb 24, 2010 8:21 pm
Posts: 534
Location: Danbury, CT
I was contacted by the former owner as a result of a conversation on another social media site. He offered up an opportunity to hear the story "from the horse's mouth" and contact information was given. He never called, nor have I heard from him since. It would be nice to get the whole story, but I won't lose any sleep over it. It will be nice to see her back on her feet again.

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 Post subject: Re: Reading 2100 open house
PostPosted: Wed Aug 19, 2015 4:52 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 5:19 pm
Posts: 2701
Location: Sackets Harbor, NY
Suffice it to again say that all of us in this industry are very fortunate that Tom Payne went broke before there was a very serious incident which could well have effected everyone.

Sometimes lucky is far better than smart.

Ross Rowland


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 Post subject: Re: Reading 2100 open house
PostPosted: Wed Aug 19, 2015 8:41 pm 

Joined: Mon Sep 12, 2011 11:27 pm
Posts: 115
Location: Flat Rock, MI
Thanks for the insight gentleman.

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 Post subject: Re: Reading 2100 open house
PostPosted: Wed Aug 19, 2015 10:07 pm 

Joined: Thu Oct 24, 2013 8:30 am
Posts: 184
Reading 2100 is amazing to see and I was told its boiler is certified to 2021 so they hope to get it back on the road very soon. One of the workers told me that the 21st century steam program was to officially end this year but he doesn't see too many good PR and no incidents it doesn't make sense to end it anytime soon I believe that is true. I believe that is false. The problem that I see is what is happening in China and tensions in eastern Europe and financial crisis around the world could spell the end of 2100 getting back on the road or any steam program. but I'm not going into politics on this. The 2100 is amazing also is 4070. I can't wait to see those two back on the road. fingers crossed on 4070


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 Post subject: Re: Reading 2100 open house
PostPosted: Wed Aug 19, 2015 10:38 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 1:51 pm
Posts: 12152
Location: Somewhere east of Prescott, AZ along the old Santa Fe "Prescott & Eastern"
I have no agenda at work or bias for or against either 2100/Reading T1's, the former owner in Washington, or the new owner.

But my cynicism/skepticism is just such that I also have to raise the possibility, however small, that any (alleged) damage has not yet been fully diagnosed/reported, or has been understated in an effort to continue to drum up financial support.

I suspect that the reality may just happen to fall somewhere between the extremes of the rosy-sounding prognosis and the "doom and gloom" "damage reports" postulated by a crowd of rumor-mongers.

I also believe nothing I hear about UP 4014 and its "attendants" these days, either..............


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 Post subject: Re: Reading 2100 open house
PostPosted: Thu Aug 20, 2015 6:45 am 

Joined: Fri Apr 26, 2013 5:56 pm
Posts: 445
Location: Ontario, Canada.
co614 wrote:
Suffice it to again say that all of us in this industry are very fortunate that Tom Payne went broke before there was a very serious incident which could well have effected everyone. Ross Rowland


Fairly harsh comment and similar to some of the stuff that appeared elsewhere on here in the past, some of which bordered on libelous.
Have never met Payne but I know some others who were involved when 2100 came up here. They had good intentions. The plan was to run a tour train through different parts of Canada. To that end, they spent considerable capital on 2100 and were acquiring passenger equipment.
The locomotive was nominally operational when she came here but required considerable work and expense to be able to satisfy Ontario/Canadian boiler authorities, including correcting substandard work done in the States.
The conversion to oil firing was related to the scope of the operation that they envisioned and made sense from that point of view. Perhaps they tried to reinvent the wheel on this point rather than using the tried and true oil firing practises of CNR and CPR going back 100 plus years.
Not sure of the internal affairs of Payne et. al. and what occured out west. But again, the original intentions were good and perhaps the business model needed further thought. They were not the first steam project to fail and sadly will probably not be the last.
My apologies for corrupting this thread. Again, sincere best wishes to the Reading 2100 folks and we should all hope the locomotive will run again soon.


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