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 Post subject: Re: NYC 0-6-0 damaged in runaway incident
PostPosted: Wed Jul 22, 2015 1:24 pm 

Joined: Sat Aug 25, 2007 12:45 am
Posts: 1089
daylight4449 wrote:
You're thinking the Children's Center with the RSC that's right next door. I can't recall who owned that 0-6-0 though... But I don't think it was the Children's Center.


The 0-6-0, RSC, dining car and PRR caboose are all owned by the Utica & Mohawk Valley Chapter, NRHS.

The issue with the RSC, dining car and PRR caboose is that they were placed on Children's Museum land.

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 Post subject: Re: NYC 0-6-0 damaged in runaway incident
PostPosted: Wed Jul 22, 2015 3:54 pm 

Joined: Sun Sep 05, 2004 1:21 pm
Posts: 243
Location: Niagara Falls, Ontario
Managed to stop there on my way back to Niagara in May. Such a great looking locomotive, she's in great condition, this is quite upsetting. Here's a few pics from that day, 6721 in happier times. Yes, there was in fact a stop block in place, however, as someone else pointed out, if the car was loaded and free rolling for quite some distance, a piddly little stop block isn't going to stop anything!! I was actually quite surprised that the track was even still connected when I was there.


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File comment: taken from the staircase of the now destroyed structure.
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nyc67211sm.jpg
nyc67211sm.jpg [ 177.27 KiB | Viewed 8936 times ]

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 Post subject: Re: NYC 0-6-0 damaged in runaway incident
PostPosted: Wed Jul 22, 2015 8:10 pm 

Joined: Sat Aug 25, 2007 12:45 am
Posts: 1089
Some updates from the Utica, NY Observer-Dispatch newspaper. First a photo gallery:
Photo Gallery: Investigation continues following the runaway rail car

Then an article that suggests a possible cause:
Investigation continues after Union Station train crash

Quote:
Law enforcement agencies got a call Tuesday afternoon that a youth was playing on top of a train car parked under the Burrstone Road overpass above the Arterial. Just before 5:30 p.m., that same 265,000-pound car rolled through residential neighborhoods and across a busy intersection before smashing an antique locomotive into the support for a pedestrian overpass at Union Station.

And an article that quotes the President of the Utica & Mohawk Valley Chapter of the NRHS:
Steam engine 'significantly damaged' after being hit by rail car
Quote:
It isn't known how badly the engine is damaged because part of it is still in the tower that supports the station's pedestrian bridge near the tracks. It is, however, “significantly damaged just from a casual perusal of the locomotive,” said Harry Lenz, president of the Utica & Mohawk Valley Chapter of the National Railway Historical Society.

And finally an article about the damage to Utica's Union Station:
Picente: Damage costs unknown after Union Station train crash


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 Post subject: Re: NYC 0-6-0 damaged in runaway incident
PostPosted: Wed Jul 22, 2015 9:28 pm 

Joined: Fri Sep 13, 2013 4:42 pm
Posts: 216
A final video offering, "And the Beat Goes on: You Can't Stop the Railroad"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T59Vhqr0NLY


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 Post subject: Re: NYC 0-6-0 damaged in runaway incident
PostPosted: Thu Jul 23, 2015 1:09 am 

Joined: Wed Oct 22, 2008 8:18 pm
Posts: 2226
I'm just wondering where the responsibilies lie here, who place the bumper, who spotted the car, why it wasn't secured.. track stops on the car would have kept it from rolling off. Obvioulsy the kid playing about wasn't good. "whats this do...ooh weee!!! ooops"


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 Post subject: Re: NYC 0-6-0 damaged in runaway incident
PostPosted: Thu Jul 23, 2015 6:05 am 

Joined: Tue Sep 26, 2006 9:18 am
Posts: 6
You would think that if that car was left in a place where something like this was possible, that they would have chocked, skated, or had a, derail in position. Especially leaving one lone car.


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 Post subject: Re: NYC 0-6-0 damaged in runaway incident
PostPosted: Thu Jul 23, 2015 8:09 am 

Joined: Fri Sep 13, 2013 4:42 pm
Posts: 216
There is a derail just north of where the hopper began its journey. Here is a photo of three railroad employees clustered about the derail a few hours after the incident.

Vandalism is suspected as an article in the Utica OD mentioned that police were called approx 5:30pm to warn of a juvenile atop the covered hopper.

I don't know why the derail failed to work.


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Osprey & NYS&W Runaway July 21 029.JPG
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 Post subject: Re: NYC 0-6-0 damaged in runaway incident
PostPosted: Thu Jul 23, 2015 8:19 am 

Joined: Fri Mar 05, 2010 3:41 am
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Location: Inwood, W.Va.
A question to consider--what sort of insurance or other compensation is available to repair the locomotive? Could such repairs be the basis or start to restoration to operation, or at least make a restoration to operation possible later on?


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 Post subject: Re: NYC 0-6-0 damaged in runaway incident
PostPosted: Thu Jul 23, 2015 10:15 am 

Joined: Thu May 21, 2015 9:33 am
Posts: 209
Location: Liberty Hill, SC
ParisHill wrote:
There is a derail just north of where the hopper began its journey. Here is a photo of three railroad employees clustered about the derail a few hours after the incident.

Vandalism is suspected as an article in the Utica OD mentioned that police were called approx 5:30pm to warn of a juvenile atop the covered hopper.

I don't know why the derail failed to work.


Several ways it could fail-

It failed because the crew didn't put it on

It failed because the vandal knew what they were doing and took it off before releasing the car

It failed because the car was parked on the decending grade away from the derail. Several industries around here have derails to protect the mainline- however the grade decends into the industry so severly there is no way a car could travel towards the mainline unless shoved.

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 Post subject: Re: NYC 0-6-0 damaged in runaway incident
PostPosted: Thu Jul 23, 2015 10:53 am 

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Cars have been known to roll right over derails without derailing if they hit them at a high enough speed. Very rare indeed, but I've heard of at least two incidents in the past from working railroaders.

The evidence should be there, at least until it rains- there should be visible marks in the paint and rust if the car traveled over the derail.

That is, if the derail was actually placed in the derailing position after the car was spotted.

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 Post subject: Re: NYC 0-6-0 damaged in runaway incident
PostPosted: Thu Jul 23, 2015 11:08 am 

Joined: Tue Aug 24, 2004 2:35 pm
Posts: 419
Location: NJ
An employee of the railroad posted on another site that the car was in fact empty.

And while I too am concerned about the locomotive the damage to the stair tower is quite significant too. This is the access Amtrak patrons use to cross the adjacent main lines at the station.

Unsure how or who but insurance of some kind should pay to fix the damage incurred.

I would think it would behoove the railroad to also provide a physical disconnect to the rail the steam engine is located on. I have been to the station of few times via railroad speeder and the station is located quite far from any interchange point and does not seem as though it is needed for switching in the yard itself. Perhaps the removal of a 100' or so of rail from the active line and the static locomotive are in order.

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 Post subject: Re: NYC 0-6-0 damaged in runaway incident
PostPosted: Thu Jul 23, 2015 12:07 pm 

Joined: Fri Aug 27, 2004 4:02 pm
Posts: 1881
Location: Back in NE Ohio
A car can't keep going through a split-rail derail, just saying. Yeah, I know they, cost more. One of those on the siding the train ran away from would also have prevented the Lac Megantic wreck as well. I do like the idea of just removing a length of rail from the spur the display is on, one length on each side about 100' from the locomotive would probably have kept it and the structure safe.


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 Post subject: Re: NYC 0-6-0 damaged in runaway incident
PostPosted: Thu Jul 23, 2015 12:24 pm 

Joined: Thu Jan 08, 2009 12:15 pm
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The siding was left in place up to the steam locomotive so that NYS&W would have access to the station platform. It hasn't happened in a very long time (and likely never will since Walter Rich passed and all the passenger equipment sold), but Susquehanna would occasionally run a passenger excursion right from the station.

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 Post subject: Re: NYC 0-6-0 damaged in runaway incident
PostPosted: Thu Jul 23, 2015 12:49 pm 

Joined: Sat Apr 15, 2006 9:55 pm
Posts: 269
Location: San Diego area
I'm wondering how the runaway got onto the spur; wouldn't the switch where it joins the main normally be lined and locked for the main? Or is there a curve there, so the car somehow jumped over the points, without derailing at the switch?


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 Post subject: Re: NYC 0-6-0 damaged in runaway incident
PostPosted: Thu Jul 23, 2015 1:24 pm 

Joined: Thu Aug 26, 2004 2:50 pm
Posts: 2815
Location: Northern Illinois
I haven't bothered to try to find a track schematic, but it seems the track the 0-6-0 was on was a switching lead along side the mainline... In which case lining the switches for the lead would be preferable to lining them for the main, and having a car roll out in front of Amtrak.

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