Surviving Pullman Heavyweight Sleeping Cars

Rainier Rails · **Posted:** Mon Feb 24, 2014 6:23 pm

J3a-614 mentioned this car back on page #9 of this thread:

J3a-614 wrote:

Maybe another one, also in Mexico:

Mount Hood: Rebuilt as New York Central 19 (office car), then to NdeM 3522 Presidente Alvaro Obregon; photographed as recently as 2013. Note that this car has the same name as a later Spokane, Portland & Seattle lightweight car, No. 600, on the existing Great Northern lightweight car thread.

http://rrpicturearchives.net/rspicture.aspx?id=229611

http://rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=755548

As reported by Greg Slaton in the Mexican Landmarks thread (http://www.rypn.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=36275), the Mt. Hood is indeed a surviving car:

Gregslaton wrote:

This is ex NYC business car 19, ex Pullman Mount Hood, on Hwy 150 outside Veracruz, near Paso del Toro(at a PEMEX gas station).

302. Mt. Hood (Lot #4742, Plan #3521, 1923, 10S-buf-lng-obs)--sold to NYC and converted to business car #19 (3rd) (1948) sold to C.V. Whitney as the Wanderer (1960) sold to NdeM as #3522 Presidente Alvaro Obregon--currently located at Pemex gas station on Highway 150 outside Veracruz, near Paso del Toro

Here's the photo that Greg provided a link to: http://static.panoramio.com/photos/large/26876061.jpg (Luis M. Sosa photo) (click once to enlarge)

Sources:

1. Information from Tom Madden's Pullman Project CCR database: http://pullmanproject.com/Database.htm

2. Information from Terry Link's NYC passenger car roster pages at: http://www.canadasouthern.com/caso/NYC-MODELS-PASS.htm

StLSW · **Joined:** Tue Feb 25, 2014 10:56 pm **Posts:** 39

I haven't seen the 8-5 "Clover Glade" mentioned here yet. It was rebuilt from 12-1-1 "Dungarvin" and went to the Katy at the 48 deaccession. It then went to Dr. Henry Renfert on his farm in Texas and was donated before his death to the Railroad and Heritage Museum where it is on display today, in Temple, Texas

It is very nearly complete on the inside, missing only a few things.

Bradley Linda
Waco, Texas

Rainier Rails · **Posted:** Wed Feb 26, 2014 5:17 pm

StLSW wrote:

I haven't seen the 8-5 "Clover Glade" mentioned here yet. It was rebuilt from 12-1-1 "Dungarvin" and went to the Katy at the 48 deaccession. It then went to Dr. Henry Renfert on his farm in Texas and was donated before his death to the Railroad and Heritage Museum where it is on display today, in Temple, Texas

It is very nearly complete on the inside, missing only a few things.

Bradley--

The Clover Glade is listed back on page #7, third post down, line item #182.

If you know of any additional cars, feel free to contribute. Thanks in advance.

StLSW · **Joined:** Tue Feb 25, 2014 10:56 pm **Posts:** 39

Whoops! Guess I just missed it. Sorry about that. If I think of any more, Ill post.

Bradley Linda
Waco, TX

Rainier Rails · **Posted:** Wed Mar 05, 2014 8:55 pm

Update:

119. Mt. Tom (Lot #4998, Plan #3521A, 1926, 10S-buf-lng-obs)--sold to L&N (1948) converted to business car #364 (1952) sold to private owner (1972) to second private owner (1982) and named Ohio River (1983) to Morristown & Erie #2001 (#800228)

The Mt. Tom/Ohio River is listed for sale as part of Ozark Mountain Railcar's online auction of April 8th-10th.

Auction thread: http://www.rypn.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=36309

Full auction listings on the Ozark Mountain Railcar website: http://www.ozarkmountainrailcar.com/catalog.asp?catid=449&n=Auctions

Page for the Ohio River on the Ozark Mountain Railcar website: http://www.ozarkmountainrailcar.com/detail.asp?id=1363&n=AUCTION-LN-Ohio-River

sou2404 · **Joined:** Wed Jun 19, 2013 5:56 pm **Posts:** 20

Does anyone know what happened to SOU 2496 McQuade (12S-1DR, 1924) after it left the TVRM? The roster I have just has the car listed as sold. Is she still around?

PLATFORMCAR · **Joined:** Wed Jan 11, 2006 2:22 pm **Posts:** 429

Thought some members of the group might want to see some recent photographs of car 155 on the list....Asheville (Lot #3848, Plan #2502, 1911, pvt. car, ex-Advance [1st])--sold to Algoma Central #552 Michipicoten (1944)

Also shows the name of the car.. under the dining room table as previously mentioned..

Interesting no less.

Dean Levin

PLATFORMCAR · **Joined:** Wed Jan 11, 2006 2:22 pm **Posts:** 429

a few interior photographs

Dean Levin

Rainier Rails · **Posted:** Sat Mar 29, 2014 12:27 am

Thanks, Dean, for posting the photos of the Advance!

Rainier Rails · **Posted:** Sun Mar 30, 2014 12:09 am

Another thread (http://www.rypn.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=36414) has turned up another survivor in Savannah, GA.

The car remains unidentified at this time.

303. 8S-1DR-2C painted as CofG #5341 in Savannah.

PLATFORMCAR · **Joined:** Wed Jan 11, 2006 2:22 pm **Posts:** 429

Thought some members of the group might find this interesting....Built in 1923 as a 10 section/observation lounge by Pullman and named Mt. Desert. Operated in general pool service until sold to the New York Central Railroad, after extensive rebuilding the car was outshopped as business car #20

Sold into private ownership and ran with name "Hiram" , later leased to Chicago South Shore before going out of date and rot and Amtrak's requirements sidelined the car.

Car is in Madison Illinois

Dean Levin

Rainier Rails · **Posted:** Sun Mar 30, 2014 7:26 pm

Thanks, Dean, for posting the photos of NYC #20!

304. Mt. Desert (Lot #4742, Plan #3521, 1923, 10S-buf-lng-obs)--sold to NYC and converted to business car #20 with four staterooms (1948) in NYC Lot #2228 to PC #3. Sold* to Buzz Norton and named Hiram, under lease to CSS&SB with Amtrak #800127. Sold in 1995 to Toledo, Peoria & Western, now stored at Gateway.

*Link lists the sale date as 1966, LaBoda and Garner both have the #20 as renumbered to PC #3.

Photos:

As NYC #20: http://www.canadasouthern.com/caso/images/nyc-20-b.jpg (Edward L. May collection, courtesy Richard L. Stoving) (click once to enlarge)

NYC Lot #2228 diagram: http://www.canadasouthern.com/caso/images/c-24.jpg (Terry Link collection) (click once to enlarge)

As NYC #20: http://www.northeast.railfan.net/images/nyc20.jpg (North East Rails photo)

As CSS&SB Hiram, still in NYC Two-Tone Gray: http://rr-fallenflags.org/misc-p/pvcx-hiram-sba.jpg (Fallen Flags photo)--note that the Hiram in this photo is crossing the South Shore at grade.

As CSS&SB Hiram: http://rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=1774230 (Tom Golden photo)

As CSS&SB Hiram behind ICG SW14 #1429 and #1426: http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=2528909 (Joe Korienek photo)

Sources:

1. Tom Madden's Pullman Project CCR database: http://pullmanproject.com/Database.htm

2. Terry Link's NYC passenger car roster pages: http://www.canadasouthern.com/caso/NYC-MODELS-PASS.htm

3. Pictures located via Jerry LaBoda's photo links database: http://passcarphotos.info/

4. Stan Garner's list of passenger cars with Amtrak #800xxx-series numbers: http://www.movie-trains.com/pvlist.html

Rainier Rails · **Posted:** Sun Apr 06, 2014 3:59 am

Another survivor has turned up, which was discussed back on page #7:

MRLX1020 wrote:

The folks at the ACWR did a great job on the Defender project!

I was looking at that car and trying to research another similar car at the St. Louis Iron Mountain & Southern in Jackson, MO.
Through a local IC/GM&O passenger fan, I found out that the car in Jackson is the Matanzas - was originally used on the Havana Special, then ended up on the GM&O - could be a sister car to the Azalea? It's been a few years ago since I have been through the car, and I recall it having sections, and maybe a drawing room (could have been a lounge). Any info on it?

Rainier Rails wrote:

Thanks, MRLX1020, for the info on Matanzas!

217. Matanzas (Lot #4979, Plan #3967A, 1926, buf-lng, Florida Pool)--sold to GM&O diner-lng #401 Camellia (1945) converted to instruction car #106 to #66658 to St. Louis, Iron Mountain & Southern

The #400 Azalea has the following history:

Barnegat (Lot #4158, Plan #2415A, 1913, lng-buf-bag, PRR)--sold to C&A (1941) to GM&O diner-lng #400 Azalea converted to baggage-express #400

a. As diner lounge #400 Azalea: http://rr-fallenflags.org/acfx/gmo-d400asw.jpg (Fallen Flags photo)

b. As baggage-express #400 (still smoking from the fire): http://rr-fallenflags.org/gmo/gmo-b0400goa.jpg (Fallen Flags photo)

What I did not realize was that GM&O rostered two heavyweight cars as #400! The second #400 was the baggage car listed back on page #7, which was formerly the Barnegat. The first #400 was diner lounge Azalea, and was the sister car to #401 Camellia. Both were originally buffet lounge cars built to Plan #3967, of which only five were built, all in Lot #4979 (1926). Two were sold to GM&O in 1945 and converted to diner lounges. As already noted, the Matanzas was converted to #401 Camellia, and the #400 (1st) Azalea was converted from:

305. Cuba (Lot #4979, Plan #3967A, 1926, buf-lng, Florida Pool)--sold to GM&O diner-lng #400 (1st) Azalea (1945), renumbered to #2008 to make room for the #400 (2nd) and sold in 1970 to Al Coleman. Coleman sold the car to the Riverside Restaurant in Butzville, NJ, which closed back in 2006, and as reported in the thread linked to below, the Azalea is still there!

Also mentioned in the linked thread is that Al Coleman also owned a heavyweight sleeper:

Night Trail (Lot #6304, Plan #3980B, 1929, 14SB)--sold to NYNH&H (1948)

Does anyone know the current whereabouts of this car??

Azalea thread: http://www.rypn.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=21254

Sources:

1. Tom Madden's Pullman Project CCR database: http://pullmanproject.com/Database.htm

2. Jerry LaBoda's photo links website: http://passcarphotos.info/

Rainier Rails · **Posted:** Wed Apr 09, 2014 8:00 pm

Four More Survivors:

All of these cars are at the Florida Railroad Museum in Parrish.

306. Monte Rosa (Lot #4923, Plan #3521A, 1925, 10S-buf-lng-obs)--sold to CofG (1948) to Robert Snow-Church Street Station. Church Street equipment acquired by FRRM in 2012 (had been put up for sale to clear ROW for Orlando's new SunRail operation).

307. Kentucky (Lot #4998, Plan #3521J, 1926/38, 10S-buf-sol-lng-obs, L&N Pan American, ex-Mt. Langford)--sold to L&N (1948) converted to club lounge and renamed Kentucky Club (1954) sold to Royal American Shows #51 (1960) sold to FRRM (1987)

308. Washington Square (Lot #4887, Plan #3523A, 1925, 6C-3DR, PRR Broadway Limited)--retained (12/31/1948)--sold to Royal American Shows (1958) sold to member of FRRM (when??)

309. Gray (Lot #4804, Plan #3523, 1924, 6C-3DR)--retained (12/31/1948)--sold to Royal American Shows (1950) sold to member of FRRM (when??)

Using Internet Archive, here's a cached version of FRRM's page on the Kentucky Club: http://web.archive.org/web/20030802021112/http://www.frrm.org/k-club.shtml

Using Internet Archive, here's a cached version of FRRM's roster page (Washington Square and Gray are listed near the bottom of the page, below ACL coach #1116): http://web.archive.org/web/20030801183622/http://www.frrm.org/roster.shtml

Sources:

1. Tom Madden's Pullman Project CCR database: http://pullmanproject.com/Database.htm

2. Found the info on the Church Street equipment while surfing Don Strack's Utah Rails UP passenger car roster pages (dome chair #7009 was at Church Street): http://utahrails.net/pass/pass-index.php

etalcos · **Posted:** Wed Apr 09, 2014 10:10 pm

The Kentucky Club is at KRM now...

ETA