It is currently Fri Aug 21, 2026 11:08 pm

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 52 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: Preserving steam and building new ones
PostPosted: Sun Feb 23, 2014 10:56 am 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 7:19 am
Posts: 6464
Location: southeastern USA
More importantly, practical because of available venues for operating. It's fortunate that the scale of their railways and the opportunities for use so nicely coincide. Perhaps we should look for similar models over here.......but that might not make enough of a difference.

dave

_________________
“God, the beautiful racket of it all: the sighing and hissing, the rattle and clack of the cars over the rails. These were the sounds that made America the greatest country on earth." Jonathan Evison


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Preserving steam and building new ones
PostPosted: Sun Feb 23, 2014 4:15 pm 

Joined: Wed Jul 28, 2010 12:45 pm
Posts: 142
Dave wrote:
More importantly, practical because of available venues for operating. It's fortunate that the scale of their railways and the opportunities for use so nicely coincide. Perhaps we should look for similar models over here.......but that might not make enough of a difference.

dave


Could you elaborate on what you mean by opportunities for use? What opportunities are we missing out on here in the states?


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Preserving steam and building new ones
PostPosted: Sun Feb 23, 2014 4:43 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 7:19 am
Posts: 6464
Location: southeastern USA
Mainlines friendly to the operation of steam powered passenger trains....in England the national railroads are much more broadly available to qualified potential operators than the privately owned mainlines are in the US. Culturally, the island is made up of many places in proximity to each other since it was developed before railways. Railways were built to link cities through industrial sites and agricultural areas which fed the cities. An unbroken history of an intensive passenger rail service has existed there which never was as intensive or pervasive here, even in the early 20th century. We are geared up to move bulk freight a long distance - they are geared up to move smaller quantities of freight for short distances and a lot of people for any distance. Adding a special train into the mix is not a problem there as a result of the operating culture and legal and ownership framework.

The model that might exist over here would be a friendly and very flexible railroad interested in building a program. That may not exist.

dave

_________________
“God, the beautiful racket of it all: the sighing and hissing, the rattle and clack of the cars over the rails. These were the sounds that made America the greatest country on earth." Jonathan Evison


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Preserving steam and building new ones
PostPosted: Sun Feb 23, 2014 4:49 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 1:51 pm
Posts: 12150
Location: Somewhere east of Prescott, AZ along the old Santa Fe "Prescott & Eastern"
derail wrote:
Could you elaborate on what you mean by opportunities for use? What opportunities are we missing out on here in the states?


1) A main-line railroad willing to allow a big steam locomotive to operate over its lines.
BNSF: Decides on a case-by-case basis, has not permitted regular operation of any major steamer.
UP: If it's not one of theirs, fuhgeddaboudit.
NS: The Big "Maybe."
CP: Let its own mainline steam program die off, but not out of the question...
CN/IC: So when was the last time you saw any steam?
Amtrak: WAAAA-HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA......
CSX: Don't even THINK of asking them.

This leaves you with KCS (a major unknown) and smaller players like the Indiana Railroad.

1a) A corporate/administrative mindset and business environment willing to entertain the prospect of such an engine running on their lines under certain conditions.

2) A viable commercial environment for excursions. This includes an affordable liability insurance market, and/or a legal environment/culture where litigation isn't a national pastime, as well as areas with a healthy pool of potential riders combined with a place through which to ride or to which to go.

3) A readily available non-proprietary fleet of appropriate excursion cars that can be easily called into service to be hauled by such "big steam." Coupling sixteen Amfleet/Horizon cars or commuter boxes behind a T1 or isn't going to cut it, although at an extreme a few could be used as "economy seating." And twenty first-class cars will simply price out all but "the 1%".


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Preserving steam and building new ones
PostPosted: Sun Feb 23, 2014 6:05 pm 

Joined: Wed Feb 02, 2011 9:40 pm
Posts: 841
Alexander D. Mitchell IV wrote:
derail wrote:
Could you elaborate on what you mean by opportunities for use? What opportunities are we missing out on here in the states?


1) A main-line railroad willing to allow a big steam locomotive to operate over its lines.
BNSF: Decides on a case-by-case basis, has not permitted regular operation of any major steamer.
UP: If it's not one of theirs, fuhgeddaboudit.
NS: The Big "Maybe."
CP: Let its own mainline steam program die off, but not out of the question...
CN/IC: So when was the last time you saw any steam?
Amtrak: WAAAA-HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA......
CSX: Don't even THINK of asking them.

This leaves you with KCS (a major unknown) and smaller players like the Indiana Railroad.

1a) A corporate/administrative mindset and business environment willing to entertain the prospect of such an engine running on their lines under certain conditions.

2) A viable commercial environment for excursions. This includes an affordable liability insurance market, and/or a legal environment/culture where litigation isn't a national pastime, as well as areas with a healthy pool of potential riders combined with a place through which to ride or to which to go.

3) A readily available non-proprietary fleet of appropriate excursion cars that can be easily called into service to be hauled by such "big steam." Coupling sixteen Amfleet/Horizon cars or commuter boxes behind a T1 or isn't going to cut it, although at an extreme a few could be used as "economy seating." And twenty first-class cars will simply price out all but "the 1%".


You can scratch KCS off the list. The experience they had with the exSP 745 pretty much welded that door shut.


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Preserving steam and building new ones
PostPosted: Sun Feb 23, 2014 9:07 pm 

Joined: Tue Jun 04, 2013 4:28 pm
Posts: 54
I'd rethink the opinion about NS and big steam. They did invite N&W 611 to become a part of the 21st Century Steam program (as well as donating $1.5 million to the Fire Up 611 project), and possibly may extend an invitation to N&W 1218. If the engine is of company heritage may be the deciding issue. They certainly feel comfortable in using NKP 765 on excursions.
lois


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Preserving steam and building new ones
PostPosted: Mon Feb 24, 2014 4:33 pm 

Joined: Thu Nov 22, 2007 5:46 am
Posts: 2611
Location: S.F. Bay Area
steamfan765 wrote:
I've been hearing groups trying to build new steam locomotives. One group are trying to build a new PRR T1 and another one to build a NYC hudson.


Would just point out... while this is talked about in a fanciful way... meanwhile, somewhat less ambitious projects are actually being built. Haven't we buit two Americans in recent years?


Offline
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 52 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to: